"Flavor loss" with carbonation

Temperature has a big impact on flavor. The warmer the beer, the bigger the aroma and flavor.

 

What temp are you pouring your beer at?

 

What about the beer was awesome and later found lacking? Was it by any chance the hops? Hop flavors and aromas are readily dulled by oxidation, in my experience. Did you flush the oxygen from your kegs before transferring?

 

Calling all CAMRA dudes

http://www.camra.org.uk/about-real-ale

 

Let some come up to room temp and taste it.

 

I agree with the letting it to warm up, but also what have you carbed to? I'd wager that a lower carb level would also bring it back to where you enjoyed it.

 

This. Definitely.

Some years ago I stopped keeping my kegged ales in the fridge at all, and worked to keep the carbonation levels in check (and not overcarbed like most commercial American brews...including most "craft" beers).
I noticed that especially with my IPA, the cool cellar temp and restrained carbonation brought out all of the flavors (and especially the hop character) much better.
It still amazes me how most so called "craft" beer bars still serve everything at near frozen temperature.

 

CO2 is acidic and will really cut through the sweet malt characteristic. this is usually a good thing.

if you find the beer is not as sweet as you expected it can be the gas. Otherwise it is most certainly temperature, or some degree of oxidation, or both.

Cheers.

 

Most, many bars, are trying to get a serving temperature of near 38 degrees. This is not because they want to piss you off it is because of how beer gets from a keg to a glass. There is no good way to serve 48 degree beer. Not even 45, it will not work. Trust me.

If you like short pours and lots of foam that is what 48 degree beer looks like.

Most people can wait a few moments to allow the beer to warm up to the temp they like.
I'll add that warm beer complaints are much more of a problem than cold beer complaints. People really do like cold beer, even craft beer lovers.

Cheers.

 

I can't really disagree with most of what you say. The places I frequent however do know me well enough to not ever give me a chilled glass, and they also for the most part know to give me a spoon so that I can stir out some of the co2 (which is usually too excessive for my own tastes).
I guess given the conditions in a commercial bar and general clientele preferences, it is easier to serve it fizzy at 38°F.

But I have to add that at home, I have had no problems at all dispensing at anywhere from 50 to 58°F and I don't ever wind up with just a glass of foam. I guess it's just that after close to 40 years of kegging my homebrew, I've just managed to dial in the right combination of conditions (line length, pressure levels, etc.) for my particular system and tastes.
But you're right...when at a bar or restaurant, I have no problem at all letting my beer warm up to preferred temps (and I shut up about it...I'm not one to fuss about such things in a bar setting).
As with most things beer, there are many ways to look at most aspects of it (almost always boiling down to individual tastes).

 

Solution for those who can't wait a few moments: order two beers. The second will be even better than the first. $$

 

I have the opposite problem. My beer tastes like flat bitter swill before carbonating and conditioning. Then it tastes good when it's ready to drink.

 

20 psi at 38f makes 3.3vols of co2. That's higher than 99% of American PA/IPA.

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

Even at 20 psi, it takes 10-14 days to become fully carbonated.

 

I would not recommend 20 psi. That is very high. Unless you are trying to carb quickly, but that is not an exact art and probably not something you want to screw with for a while, not until you have a good feel for the process.

makes no difference.
how fast the gas is dissolved into the liquid is not relevant to flavor. but a week or more aging in the keg is almost always a good idea, even for hoppy ales. freshly fermented brew is still a bit green, and the week or so of maturing really is noticeable.

keg beer and the application of CO2 is very temperature dependent. physics. cold liquid absorbs more gas at a given pressure, and it is really important when you need to actually serve the beer. so try to get to below 40, 38 ideally, consistently and you have eliminated some head aches.

build a keezer!
Cheers.

 

Timely discussion. I usually keep my kegs at 40F (unless it's something I want to emulate 'cask', then I keep the carbonation low and store unrefrigerated in my cellar - which rarely gets much warmer than ~ 55F).

Today, after an unusually mild start to winter, we're back in the middle of a cold snap. My kegerator temp was down to 34F, and that's just too cold. It's always amazing how much an impact a 6 degree swing can have on everything from carbonation to flavor and aroma. So, it was time to add a heat source inside the fridge. Dropped a 60 W flood lamp in there for a couple hours and all was right with the world.

BTW... has anyone ever used one of these? Overkill? Or better than a lightbulb?

http://www.petsmart.com/reptile/hea...-catid-500011?var_id=36-14777&_t=pfm=category

 

Bill, what are your thoughts on the concept of CO2 hydration?

Below is something that Martin Brungard posted on another beer forum:

“We know we can infuse CO2 into solution fairly quickly. The soda manufacturers do that every day. Nice coarse and effervescent bubbles are formed. But with time, CO2 is hydrated and I feel that this mechanism is key to the change in carbonation quality that we brewers desire. The hydration of CO2 is a very time-dependent process and it cannot be accelerated. That is why you can force carbonate a keg in minutes, yet not have acceptable foam for a few weeks.”

Cheers!

 

Good question.
I have no idea about the mechanism, but it is very apparent that high pressure force carbonation produces a coarse bubble effect, and it is less than desirable. I'm not so sure that it requires weeks for the beer to be acceptable though. Bars make soda water on the spot with a motorized carbonator.

I cold crash all of my beer, pretty much I think. My keezer is huge and can easily hold a carboy. I don't secondary, just blow off the oxygen in the headspace with CO2 and let the bucket sit for a week or whenever I get to kegging. Then force carb the clear beer. But it is good to go in a day or two, depending on the force carb process.

I will be the first to admit that chemistry is like math only worse. Not my strongest field.

Hydration of CO2. Sounds interesting.
Cheers.