Flavour infusions deteriorating over time

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by TheBadger0289, Jul 17, 2013.

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  1. TheBadger0289

    TheBadger0289 Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2008 New Zealand (Aotearoa)

    Hi all,

    I recently brewed a Best Bitter and prior to bottling I reserved half of the brew and did a cold earl grey tea infusion in an attempt to brew something like Yeastie Boys Gunnamatta. At the time of bottling it tasted excellent with real citrus and floral notes from the earl grey. Once I'd reached the flavour profile I wanted I bottled and waited. A couple of weeks later once carbonation had hit I cracked open a bottle to try it out side by side with the unaltered version. I was really happy with the unaltered version as it was pretty much to style for a Best Bitter, but the earl grey infusion had lost the fruity and floral notes and become more of a muted 'black tea' flavour. It didn't taste bad in any way shape or form, but it's flavour profile had altered significantly.

    What I really want to know is whether there are ways to mitigate or minimise this deterioration?

    I'm used to beer changing characteristics with time, but this was an extremely fast change. If it came to it I guess I could force carbonate it in the keg and drink it super fresh, but I know the Gunnamatta still has a great earl grey flavour some time later.

    My assumption is that this change was a result of some sort of oxidisation, so I was also wondering about displacing the oxygen in the filled bottles with some sort of inert gas?

    I've also just bottled an oatmeal stout that was given a big hit of single source ethiopian coffee in the last stages of secondary. The cold infusion has given it a sweet and fruity flavour quite distinct from espresso or filter coffee. I'd really love to preserve that flavour, but am slightly concerned that it too will fade like the tea did.

    Any help is much appreciated!

    Cheers,

    Jack
     
  2. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    Oxidation could be one of the causes, and just like trying to preserve a hop aroma, you can purge your kegs/bottles with CO2. To my understanding tea should help add (sulfates?sulfites?) that should help preserve the beer. As for the tea flavor, I don't know a lot about trying to preserve that. If I had to try to get tea flavor in beer I'd cold-steep the tea and add it in gently at the bottom of a purged keg or bottling bucket. I'd rack the beer on top and hope for the best. The same goes for coffee. Most of us have had best luck with cold steeping the night before.

    Cold temps will help extend the shelf life of all your flavors and your beer. Hopefully that coffee flavor will hold up for the rest of your batch.

    Cheers,

    Chris
     
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  3. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    I find that certain flavor additions become muted during bottle conditioning. In my opinion, you may not be satisfied with your additions until you have the ability to force carb.
     
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  4. nickfl

    nickfl Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2006 Florida

    I agree with your assessment that it may be oxidation. I assume that by cold infusion you mean you are steeping the flavoring in cold water and adding the strained liquid to your beer? If so that may be where you are picking up the o2. You either need to use deairated water for this process, or just steep your tea, etc directly in the beer. I have found that steeping directly in the beer usually works best. I have never used tea, but with coffee, a cold water steep is a waste of time for an inferior result, adding whole beans directly to the beer is easier and yields the best coffee character.
     
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  5. TheBadger0289

    TheBadger0289 Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2008 New Zealand (Aotearoa)

    Thanks guys. Couple more points: The tea was put in a jug with two litres of the beer and left to steep for two days then added back into the beer. The coffee was added directly to the beer in the form of coarse grounds.

    I think if it doesn't taste good enough then I will start force carbing.

    Appreciate the replies.
     
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  6. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Pooh-Bah (1,865) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Disclaimer: I've never made a beer with tea, but I do drink a lot of tea.:slight_smile:

    I think 2 days' steeping might be too long; you will extract more tannins, and these can precipitate out in short order, possibly taking some more desirable flavors down with them. I'd try a 2 hours to overnight steep in cold beer and adjust from there - you might need more tea for this schedule. Excluding air is always good; you can purge a jar with CO2 before adding the beer and tea. When making coffee beers, I've always steeped the whole beans for 1 - 2 days right in the secondary... less messing with the beer, therefore fewer things that can go wrong. My intuition is that tea would need less time than coffee, but of course I'm just guessing.
     
  7. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah


    Is this about a day or two before you package?
     
  8. TheBadger0289

    TheBadger0289 Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2008 New Zealand (Aotearoa)

    In both instances I have been bottling immediately following the completion of the infusion.

    skivtjerry - regards the tea infusion, the flavour of the beer was bang on at bottling so I think it's more a process that has happened in the bottle as opposed to specifically to do with the infusion.

    Force carbing and purging the bottles with C02 seems like the way forward.
     
  9. nickfl

    nickfl Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2006 Florida

    Yeah, around 24 to 48 hours before packaging.
     
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  10. DimensionX

    DimensionX Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2010 Oregon

    does anybody know if heat from chilis will stick around or will it fade like so many others?
     
  11. reverseapachemaster

    reverseapachemaster Zealot (722) Sep 21, 2012 Texas

    It will stick around, at least for a very long time.
     
  12. VincentFrey

    VincentFrey Initiate (0) Jul 30, 2011 Maryland

    It'll hang out around a long, long time at the least. Having done 3 chili pepper beers, there is still heat at 12, 9, and 7 months respectively.
     
  13. yalnikim75

    yalnikim75 Initiate (0) May 24, 2010 New Zealand (Aotearoa)

    Hey Jack

    Very flattered that you're interested in playing around along similar lines... It sounds like your process would have definitely introduced some oxidation... The moving from fermenter to jug and back-blending would be very difficult to control.

    We add the tea to the fermenter at the end of fermentation and leave it warm for four days before cooling and dumping the tea. It actually kicks off a little more fermentation, which helps reduce issues around oxidation, and adds an extra half a percent abv. The first time we brewed it we expected it to be 6% and it kicked on through to 6.5%.

    The second point of make is to ensure you use a really high quality tea, with actual leaves rather than bags. We use earl grey blue flower from "t leaf t" here in NZ. It's a beautiful tea. I thought I hated earl grey before I tried it, as I had only had supermarket earl grey tea.

    Cheers
    Stu
    Yeastie Boys
     
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