Foam - Need the Experts

Discussion in 'Home Bar' started by TDahlin, Jan 17, 2022.

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  1. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    Yes, another foam thread... But I've put a lot of work in already.

    I'm having foam issues that I can't seem to solve. I've read through these forums numerous times and tried everything that seems to make sense.

    Some background: I bought a Nostalgia KRS-2150 a few years ago. At the time, I did have foam issues but I put a little less effort into solving. Eventually, I reduced foam down to about 1/3 of the first pour buy lowering temps, adding a tower cooler (fan), adding a better faucet, and extending the line. I kept at 12-13psi (I'm at 5650ft elevation). The weird part is that I needed about 20ft of 3/16 line to get the foam under control. It poured a little slow, but worked. I'm usually drinking IPAs.

    A few weeks ago, I decided to actually solve the problem the right way and try to reduce my foam to nearly zero. This did not go well. Now I'm pouring a full glass of dense foam before I get good flow.

    Here's how I'm set up:
    • 8ft of 3/16 line - I've tried coiled on top of the keg, and also draped to the bottom - no real difference
    • 12psi (5650ft elevation), about 18in from the coupler to the faucet - there may be a very small amount of breakout in the line
    • Tower fan blowing directly on the shanks, faucet is cool to the touch
    • Tower is insulated inside
    • New Perlick flow control faucet - restricting flow barely helps with foam, if any
    • AC Infinity fan circulating air from bottom to top
    • Beer pours ~38-39F on the second glass after starting with a room temp glass. I spend several days getting to that temp after replacing the original thermostat
    • Keg is settled
    • I've got no reason to believe there is a leak in the coupler, I don't see bubbles there when pouring
    • Once foam clears, it will occasionally flare back up just a little while pouring
    I've held off on posting but I'm about to go nuts with this. I'm not sure what else I can do. I really appreciate any new ideas.
     
    #1 TDahlin, Jan 17, 2022
  2. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    What does the beer line look like after it has sat for a while - packed with beer, or gaps?
     
    #2 DougC123, Jan 18, 2022
  3. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    No gaps, a few small bubbles in the high point at the coupler.
     
    #3 TDahlin, Jan 18, 2022
  4. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    Probably a little more at the shank, if I had to guess. Not much though.
     
    #4 TDahlin, Jan 18, 2022
  5. Montanabeerz

    Montanabeerz Savant (1,073) Oct 31, 2016 Montana
    Trader

    Have you tried checking out the co2 regulator or the coupler? Sounds like you’ve been through about the whole system other than those components. If there’s somehow a partial clog in the coupler that could be the problem or if your regulator is not reading the correct psi for some reason you could be overcarbing and that’s the issue. Good luck, hope you get it sorted out!
     
    #5 Montanabeerz, Jan 18, 2022
  6. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    I've checked the coupler and there doesn't seem to be an issue there. It's possible that the regulator is off. It does seem to pour faster than what I'd expect with shorter line. But if I go lower than the 12-13 psi that I'm set at, I start getting CO2 breakout, which leads me to believe it can't be too far off of what it's reading.
     
    #6 TDahlin, Jan 18, 2022
  7. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    If I understand you correctly the first pour is foam, followed by a normal pour? If that's accurate then you have a cooling problem rather than a balance problem. If unbalanced it will always be foamy, but it sounds like you are okay after the line/shank/faucet is cooled down.

    Suggest you put a baggie of ice cubes on faucet and if possible on shank...let them get ice cold and see how it pours. Somewhere your beer is being warmed which forces the CO2 out of solution, that's what you are looking for. Please report back if this helps.

    FWIW, atmospheric pressure at your altitude is 12psi as opposed to 14.7psi at sea level, that's an 18% drop. This causes a dissolved gas to escape at a faster rate but we're not talking about a shop-stopper here. Something as little as an extra foot or two of beer line can manage that. Also, not all beer line is created equal...I run 9 feet at 12psi at 39° at sea level for a decent pour. Others tell me they get by with a shorter length. Some experimentation is usually required.
     
    #7 PortLargo, Jan 18, 2022
  8. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    Also on the issue of tower cooler and the fan in the box. You shouldn’t need both, you don’t need to create a weather pattern in there, just some flow. The tower cooler should pull air from the cold plate and deliver it via a tube right behind the shanks. The tower cannot be over insulated to the point that it stops the return air from coming back to the box. That amount of airflow should be sufficient to turn over the air.
     
    #8 DougC123, Jan 18, 2022
    riptorn likes this.
  9. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    Ok I cooked the faucet and shank with ice and it did help - about a quarter glass of foam. So... How would I improve this, given that I've already got a tower cooler? Why doesn't everyone have this problem, especially the ones doing less than I am?

    Another thing to note: the second glass right after also had about a quarter glass of foam, so seems to be consistent foam in the pour after cooling. And still a little spitting.

    Regarding psi, I followed guidelines I've found in numerous forums. Are you saying I should increase a bit?
     
    #9 TDahlin, Jan 19, 2022
  10. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    If you're saying every glass has one quarter of foam then that's a balance problem (temp/press/line-length). If you are sure you know your temp, then set the press according to carb-chart. This keeps the beer carb'ed at the proper level. . . you don't want to mess with that. Then balance by adjusting line length. For reference, I'm using a longer line than you and at sea level I have more pressure to keep the CO2 in solution. So I suggest a longer line, probably start at 12' and whittle it down if needed.

    The only time your faucet should spit is when the keg kicks. If it spits at you any other time there is some type of flow restriction (coupler/line/shank/faucet).

    I don't have a tower, so no direct knowledge on that subject. I will repeat what others say: have a return path for the cooling air to exit the tower, i.e. a true circulation.
     
    #10 PortLargo, Jan 19, 2022
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  11. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    Replaced the line today - started with about 14ft, just because that was the length that I already had. I let it sit for a few hours. So far, very little improvement. I did notice a little more breakout in the line, so bumped the psi barely to 13. Will see how it is tomorrow...
     
    #11 TDahlin, Jan 20, 2022
  12. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    I should clarify - by spit, I mean there seems to be cycles of foam. It clears up, then at some point it briefly gets stirred/foamy again, then clears up, and so on. It happens once or twice before I'm done with the pour, then my glass is full so not sure if it would continue or not.
     
    #12 TDahlin, Jan 20, 2022
  13. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    Previous to my recent changes, I placed a glass of water at the top and bottom of the keg and there was a difference of 7-8F. That led me to believe that uneven cooling was my original problem - which is what encouraged me to seek a better pour and make all of these changes...
     
    #13 TDahlin, Jan 20, 2022
  14. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    So longer line and ~13 Psi and I'm pouring 1/4 glass on first pour. I'm back to where I was before i started anything of this - and seems the longer line (like I had before) is the only factor making a difference... There's not much I can really do to cool my faucet any more than it is, and I know I'm doing more than many others with towers.
     
    #14 TDahlin, Jan 21, 2022
  15. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    So is the foam only on the first pour now? If so, that points to cooling. Where is the extra line sitting in the box now?
     
    #15 DougC123, Jan 21, 2022
  16. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    14 feet of choker will be 28 to 42 psi of resistance just in the line alone. That's going to spurt, 13 psi is fine, but if you have that much resistance it's not going to work so well.
    Try 10 feet.
    And line length isn't going to f8x temperature, as others have discussed.
    Cheers
     
    #16 billandsuz, Jan 21, 2022
  17. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Please expand on this.

    Are you using commercial kegs? If so what brand/type coupler do you have? What brand beer line are you using?
     
    #17 PortLargo, Jan 21, 2022
  18. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    . . . also, what does your thermo read when you place the probe in an ice slurry (glass full of ice chips/cold water)?
     
    #18 PortLargo, Jan 21, 2022
  19. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    Yes, first pour only. Line is coiled on top of the keg now. Haven't changed anything but line length and a slight bump in psi.
     
    #19 TDahlin, Jan 22, 2022
  20. TDahlin

    TDahlin Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2022

    Yes, commercial kegs. I still have the coupler that came with the kegerator - one of the only remaining original components. Currently the line is Proper Pour, but have cycled through a few different brands. I couldn't ever find a specific brand that was recommended.
     
    #20 TDahlin, Jan 22, 2022
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