Release Founders announces Solid Gold Lager

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by Urk1127, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Meyvn (1,299) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey

    Founders release coming next springtime....


    "4.4 percent ABV golden lager brewed with lager yeast, corn and lemondrop hops. The new lager is a revamped version of a beer that has been pouring in the Founders taproom “for years” and will be a year-round release"

    Solid Gold will be available year-round packaged in both six- and 15-packs of 12-ounce cans priced at $7.99 and $14.99. Both are scheduled to ship to retailers throughout the brewery’s distribution network in February 2018.

    Cited from Tenemu.

    Id definitely try this. I like corn done right and lemondrop hops so id be on the look out around then. Im curious how many think its some sort of sellout of money grab. Or you can take it as trying to convert AAL drinkers to craft.

    #1 Urk1127, Oct 25, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2018
  2. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Poo-Bah (10,305) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    They're not the first craft brewer to put out a golden lager. My guess is it will sell well and they'll make that much more margin on it because it's less expensive to make - can't blame them for that. There's certainly a market for it so why not get in on it now? In fact, I think they're late to the game.
    pro100, LuskusDelph, dcotom and 2 others like this.
  3. Steve_Studnuts

    Steve_Studnuts Aspirant (255) Apr 21, 2015 Pennsylvania

    It's Founders and it's cheap.

    I'll try it. And probably like it. And buy lots of it.
  4. Hopsonhops

    Hopsonhops Initiate (0) Sep 13, 2017 New York

    Never had a bad fresh founders beer... Azacca pc pils all day centennial mosiac promise are all good beers looking forward to crushing these
  5. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,013) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    Premium Trader

    I'll jump on the bandwagon as well.
  6. Giantspace

    Giantspace Defender (655) Dec 22, 2011 Pennsylvania

    Great price......The beer place I go to sells All day and other 15 packs for $12-14.

    I will be on the look out.

  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,649) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    This may be a 'model' for how the larger distributing craft breweries can compete in today's very competitive market.

    Produce a beer that is cheap(er) to produce and will be 'popular' with a broader segment of the beer market (e.g., both craft beer drinkers but also folks who generally drink mainstream (e.g., AAL beers)).

    I will be following this beer to see how well it sells.


    @RobH @Starkbier @KOP_Beer_OUtlet @rotsaruch @Sixpoint
  8. zid

    zid Savant (902) Feb 15, 2010 New York

    Founders claims:
    PBR with lemony hops is "challenging what a lager can be?" The marketing speak is making me nauseous.

    What are you two basing this on?
    Pisthetaerus, tzieser, Ranbot and 3 others like this.

    THANAT0PSIS Crusader (763) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin

    Good price, but in my experience Founders can't really do anything well that isn't on the malty side. I am in the minority, I know. I'll give this a fair shake before passing judgment, however, and I'm always open to more AALs from craft brewers, as I find the style underrated.
  10. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,067) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota

    I'm not into lagers much, but will try it. I am encouraged by the low price point - that's one huge way craft can compete with macro - come out with a similar and hopefully better product, and get close to macro pricing.
  11. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,335) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    So selling "AAL drinkers" an American adjunct lager beer from a non-craft (based on Brewers Assoc. criteria) brewery 30% owned by a large international brewing company with a reported barrelage of over 10 million bbl is a way to "convert (them) to craft" ? :thinking_face:
    #11 jesskidden, Oct 26, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  12. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,381) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    The BA has a definition for what they classify as a Craft Brewer, but not Craft Beer. Minhas is a craft brewer, right? Not sure I would call their product craft beer.
  13. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,335) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    Yeah, and even before the revised definition of "traditional" allowing corn and rice adjunct beers for a "Craft Brewer", some of them still brewed their old AAL's (F X Matt's Utica Club, Spoetzl's Shiner Blonde/Premium, etc).

    Just don't see where much of a "conversion" takes place by selling AAL's to AAL drinkers...:wink:

    I mean, you could say they are attempting to move "Macro drinkers" to "small US brewers" beer drinkers, but given Mahou's home and barrelage, even that doesn't apply.
    #13 jesskidden, Oct 26, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  14. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,381) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    Back to Founders. They completed their brewery expansion a while back. It included a 300 bbl brewhouse and 1500 bbl fermenters (IIRC a conversation with a GR friend, but beer was involved). They must need another volume product to fill those tanks. :wink:
  15. ThinBlueLine

    ThinBlueLine Initiate (0) Aug 23, 2014 New Jersey

    Founders has yet to disappoint. Plain and simple.... they make awesome beer. Looking forward to trying it.
  16. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,335) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    :open_mouth: Well, Pabst is trying to revive the Stroh's brand, but maybe they'll sell or license (if they've kept up the trademarks) Pfeiffer and Goebel? Both rivaled Stroh in Michigan during their heyday (pretty sure Goebel even outsold Stroh at some point, post-Repeal).

    Hell, it worked for Narragansett (and just about no one else).
    surfcaster and LuskusDelph like this.
  17. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (2,099) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    This all falls into the big conspiracy theory - micro-brewing became a popular alternative to flavorless dreck that ruled the American beer landscape for so long. Now the small breweries are being bought up by the big ones that were losing sales -- and they're forcing them to make that same dreck with fancy labels.

    Next rendition will have no "Lemondrop" character to further the complete 360 turn back to American Swillsner. I'm stocking up on Celebration for my fallout shelter before I fall victim to the brainwashing.

    AlcahueteJ, dennis3951 and meanmutt like this.
  18. ecpho

    ecpho Aspirant (228) Mar 28, 2011 New York

    I don't know about lemony hops but if they are using corn, why not just make a nice cream ale?
  19. bsullivan

    bsullivan Initiate (58) Aug 17, 2017 Connecticut

    Corn is much cheaper than malted barley
    Pisthetaerus and LuskusDelph like this.
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,649) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    A lower gravity beer (i.e., 4.4% ABV) requires less fermentables (malt, corn) to produce. Granted, ingredients costs are not the biggest factor in the cost of producing beer but it is a factor.


    Edit: @bsullivan posted that corn is cheaper than malt which may be true. I personally do not track these sorts of prices at commercial scales; I only know what I pay at the homebrewing scale.
    Prep8611 likes this.
  21. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,381) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    That is true for just corn or cracked corn. Those would require extra equipment in the brewery to process them, a mill for corn to crack it, and a cereal cooker for either form. Does Founders have a cereal cooker?

    Searches show that if I were to buy a 50 LB bag of flaked maize it is equal to or more than the cost of a 50 LB bag of US malted barley (Rahr or Malteurope for example). Flaked maize does not require a cereal cooker, as the process to make it geletanizes to starch in the corn, making it available to the enzymes from the malt.

    Cereal cookers are in use by breweries such as Yuengling, saw the one at the Tampa brewery.
  22. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Poo-Bah (10,305) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    What are you two basing this on?[/QUOTE] Simply based on an ABV of 4.4% it utilizes less grain than most of the Founders packaged beers. There are exceptions: All Day IPA is one, and then of course they have several beers like this one that they produce but don't package. Not having had the beer, however, I am unable to commit to any further comment regarding hop usage and time in the fermenter.

    I do hope it's a success but Victory Brewing's recent Home Grown Lager which seems similar in some ways struck a dull note with me.
  23. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Poo-Bah (10,305) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    An aside question, are not lemondrop hops only available through Hopsteiner?
  24. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,013) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    Premium Trader

    Mindset I think, which is understandable. The very cheapest commercial beers are brewed with corn and it's extracts so It therefore follows that using corn in quality brewing is objectionable. Why the same mindset accepts oats or wheat as good all rather sidesteps the central issue which is the grains used (and their comparative costs) are far less important than what the brewer does with them.
    LuskusDelph, drtth, rronin and 2 others like this.
  25. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Champion (829) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    What if Founders goes super cheap and uses corn syrup? No need for either a mill or a cooker.
  26. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,013) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    Premium Trader

    My concern is whether I like what they did with it. That and I want full disclosure of ingredients, ABV and IBU on the container.
  27. ThinBlueLine

    ThinBlueLine Initiate (0) Aug 23, 2014 New Jersey

    Hopefully they don't lower their standards. But given their reputation for putting out quality beers, I would assume this will not be the case.
    LuskusDelph likes this.
  28. RandyRanderson

    RandyRanderson Initiate (63) Jun 24, 2014 Pennsylvania

    I'd try it before I write it off but I don't really understand this strategy. They already have PC pils and All Day as their low ABV 15 packs, what does this add to their line-up? Granted PC pils is quite hoppy and not very traditional but I appreciated it for what is was. A friend of mines Dad, AAL drinker, really liked the PC pils when they were over for a game. I'd say something like that (or other more traditional pilsners) are a better gateway to craft.

    If you want an AAL for a tailgate/party, would you spend $15 for the Founders 15 pack or $15-20 for the 30 of Bud Light? Would an AAL drinker?
  29. Jaycase

    Jaycase Meyvn (1,200) Jan 13, 2007 Illinois

    'Founders' on the above label does not mesh well with the rest of the label imo. Not sure what it is (letter color perhaps?) but just looks a bit jarring and off to me & sticks out like a sore thumb with respect to the rest of the label. Maybe adding a solid blue band there like what is at the bottom would help. Oh well, that's my label review. :wink:
  30. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,013) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    Premium Trader

    Something new.
    zid, RandyRanderson and DISKORD like this.
  31. WV_Charles_Homebrew

    WV_Charles_Homebrew Initiate (48) May 17, 2017 West Virginia

    Doesn't really excite me, but I'll try it before passing judgement. Some Founder's beers I like more than others, but never had one that I'd consider bad and they produce some of my favorite beers. And that's a pretty good price point.
  32. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,649) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Below is the BA description for Founders Solid Gold:

    “For those of you familiar with the Solid Gold we’ve featured in our taproom for years, this is not the same beer. Our Brewmaster, Jeremy, completely revamped the recipe and it now features lager yeast, corn and lemondrop hops for just the right hit of flavor. Our take on a classic, Solid Gold is a drinkable golden lager brewed with the highest quality ingredients. Challenging what a lager can be? That’s something we won’t regret.

    20 IBU”

    As compared to the 45 IBUs of PC Pils, Solid Gold is a notably different lager beer.

    Ranbot, Squire and zid like this.
  33. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Meyvn (1,299) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey

    My saying "convert" as in someone who drink only budweiser, they maybe try this Solid Gold, and then are curious what else founders has to offer, being ipas and such.

    This is kind of what i needed i wish it wasnt such a wait until release. Ive been drinking a lot of Becks and Carlsberg because ive been craving simplicity. Sixpoints Kold Shauer was i nice pace but its gone in my area. Hoppy for the style but still along the lines of what i needed.
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  34. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Meyvn (1,299) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey

    Not sure the amount of lemondrop hops in there but ive had the Flying Dog Smash Lemondrop DIPA and it came across as of course lemony but also fairly sweet and "tea" like. I dont believe this will taste like "arnold palmer" tea but ill be trying it definitely
  35. SCW

    SCW Poo-Bah (1,691) Jul 25, 2004 New York
    Premium Industry

    Hi Jack,

    We already have some of this crossover with our Crisp, which we have been making for over 8 years and it continues to grow for us as one of our leading brands.

    We are planning on releasing a Helles early next year, a recipe that we have been working on for over a year now and we will feature at the brewery this November 18th at our Bean Day release. It is 5% ABV and about 24 IBU. We are confident that true beer lovers who embrace awesome lager will respect the quality of this beer - I currently have a pilot batch on tap at my kegerator and its tasting awesome.

    We won't, however, be releasing an AAL and trying to compete on price. That is widely understood in the industry as a "race to the bottom" because as one wise man once told me, "Once you compete on price; you've already lost."

  36. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,649) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania


    Best of luck on your new (2018) release of a Helles.

    FWIW I was told by one of the Sly Fox bartenders that the best seller for Sly Fox is their Helles: Sly Fox Helles Golden Lager.

    Maybe using some version of “Gold” in the beer branding is key here?



    P.S. It will be interesting to see how Founders new AAL beer works for them.
  37. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,649) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    And that is key here. I am guessing that Founders will be using a light touch here and consequently the lemon flavor will be subtle. We won't really know until we taste it though.

    Urk1127 likes this.
  38. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,649) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    Randy (@Ranbot) is an advocate of DAB beer. Maybe you may want to add this beer to your list. Below is a recent post that Randy made on DAB:

    “I commonly find DAB within 4 months of its package date (12 oz bottles and 16 oz cans). I enjoy the beer, but also enjoy that it typically costs <$1 per bottle or can [based on 12-pack of bottles or 24 bottle/can case].”

    Redrover, Ranbot and Urk1127 like this.
  39. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Meyvn (1,299) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey

    A helles? Sheeeeeeeeeiiiiit.

    Its already known im biased about your beers but i know i dont need to say you dont need to compete on price, those who care will put an extra few bucks towards quality. I still love the crisp and its $11 for a six after tax? Worth it. My girlfriend who only drinks yuengling and sam oktoberfest likes the Crisp because "its crisp, herbal and white-wine like" id have to ask her by what she means but shes the second person who is not a beer drinker ive drank crisp with and actually enjoyed it. The other is a primarily german drinker. Steigl Gold, Carlsberg Elephant, Rothaus..... Who said the crisp was awesome. The confidence is also nice. I feel the need to compete with price might mean somebody doesnt have confidence in their product but can sell it over a competitor simply due to cost. Maybe not the case with Founders, but elsewhere.
  40. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,649) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania

    In my opinion the present day market for distributing craft breweries is extremely competitive. Last year Sierra Nevada had a down year financially; hopefully 2017 will be more profitable for them? I have noted that Sierra Nevada seems to be thinking that producing more hoppy beers (e.g., Sidecar and Tropical Torpedo as year-round beers, soon to be released 12-pack of fresh hopped beers,...) is the solution to turn things around financially.

    Maybe Founders is thinking that producing a low/moderately hopped AAL will be a financial winner for them?

    Victory seems to be concentrating on their core beers to turn their financials around (they lost money last year).

    Every brewery needs to think about what strategy will 'work' for them. Hopefully a Helles beer will be a winner for Sixpoint.


    P.S. In the past I have posted that a well made Classic American Pilsner could be a good 'cross-over' beer but for breweries that already produce Pilsners (German style Pilsner, Czech style Pilsner) this may 'complicate' their portfolio.
    Urk1127 likes this.