Founders Red's Rye (2013)

Red's Rye is not really analogous to Flipside, which has zero rye in the grain bill. A better comparison is Ruthless, which is a very tasty beer, but just isn't quite as good as Red's Rye.

It's hard to compare directly, since Red's is classified as a rye beer and Ruthless is classified as an IPA. Also, the difference in classification may be causing people to rate artificially higher or lower--i.e., Ruthless doesn't compare favorably to the IPA style, while Red's does compare favorably to the Rye Beer style. But still, this is a pretty significant difference:

Red's Rye - 4.21
Ruthless Rye - 3.9

So at least on an anecdotal level, there is a definite perception of high quality in Red's, and at least for me, there is a lack of other equally drinkable options. If I went through a case of beer a week, I might be looking to a much cheaper and not-as-tasty alternative like Ruthless. But with the volume I purchase, that price increase isn't really going to get me to substitute a less-awesome-but-very-good beer.

 

I understand your point about differences in recipes invalidating comparisons. As to rating by classification vs. personal preference, I struggle with that myself in writing reviews. Some styles I just don't care that much for, while others I tend to love, and it's hard to keep one's personal preferences from influencing a rating score.

I have not had Ruthless yet, but I just had a Flipside last night. So I was just sayin'...I liked Flipside better than the disappointing Red's Rye I had last Spring. Perhaps it was an old one which had already lost flavor, I wasn't checking bottling dates yet then. I certainly would agree that an awesome beer would be worth paying double or triple to get over just a "very good" one.

In drawing conclusions about quality based on rating numbers, I agree up to a point. But I do think there is a thing known as a herd mentality which can be hard to resist. Popular brands like Founders with several beers in the BA top 250 might tend to get a break in the ratings. Sierra Nevada is popular, but the fact that it is relatively common and on the whole much cheaper may have a slightly negative effect on the perception of its quality. I would prefer to believe that is not the case, but objectivity can be a tough commodity for people including beer reviewers to supply. When I first drank a Heady Topper, for instance, I know I WANTED to say it was the best I've ever had, because so many others apparently think so. Few of us want to be the odd man out.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my comment. Good food - and drink - for thought.

 

Founders is my favorite brewer these days but no way im paying $3 a bottle for red rye over bkfst stout. Its a solid rye...but definitely not worth it at that price. Not trying to hate, my 2 cents.

 

I wish it was cheaper, however, it is so good, it is worth the 12.99 a 4 pk that Lake Lansing Meijer charges.

 

Did you happen to see that date on the FBS at Julios? It might have been from the 2012 batch.

 

No, but it had occurred to me that all of what I've seen lately might be unsold leftovers moved in anticipation of new batches coming in. Only reason I did not mention it is that (1) it was hard for me to believe that so many stores had been sitting on so much unsold top shelf beer for so long, and (2) since stouts can improve with age, it didn't seem to make a lot of sense to dump it, when if they hung onto it and then offered it next year as "vintage" 2012, they might actually get more money for it.

In the case of FBS, diminished coffee notes could lower the desirability. And certainly some store owners and managers and many of their customers do not think of any "old" beer as "vintage," and prefer quick turnover with diminished profit to making an iffy longer term investment.

OTOH, I have seen cases where beer store managers, apparently spooked by the dates, dramatically dropped the prices of really good beers (most recently in my experience, 2012 Pere Jacques and 2012 Yulesmith Winter, both offered at 60% of their usual retail) which turned out to either have not been significantly adversely affected, or had actually improved with age!

 

Totally understand where you're coming from, and honestly, personal preference is king when it comes to beer, so even though Flipside and Red's Rye aren't direct style competitors, it's entirely reasonable to prefer a beer that is an entirely different style over another. Especially in the case of Red's and Flipside--even though I noted the lack of rye in Flipside's grain bill, in honesty, it's probably not a huge departure unless you are looking specifically for that spicy-sour element that rye can bring. Both are effectively IPAs when fresh, with the big hop profile.

You're spot-on with the heard mentality, and I'm definitely one to shy away from that. Heck, that's how I know that I really LOOOOOVE Red's Rye, because I like it in spite of my personal tendency to be a bit of a contrarian when it comes to wildly popular things. Case in point--I cannot get into or understand the love for All Day IPA, and while I like most of Founders' lineup, Red's is the only one that really speaks to me (okay, FBS is pretty damn good too).

I will say this--the first time I had Red's was last fall, and I don't remember how far away it was from the bottling date, but it was enough to know that it was an older bottle where the hops had faded. After finally trying it fresh this year (I recently polished off the last bottle of a 4-pack that was bottled on 8/11/13), it might be my favorite rye beer on the market, being in a dead heat with Boulevard's Rye-on-Rye. If you narrow it to more drinkable, non-BA rye beers, Red's is easily tops in my book. I would definitely recommend trying to get your hands on a fresh bottle. It makes a huge difference, especially in the aroma.

Cheers!

 

I will say this--the first time I had Red's was last fall, and I don't remember how far away it was from the bottling date, but it was enough to know that it was an older bottle where the hops had faded. After finally trying it fresh this year (I recently polished off the last bottle of a 4-pack that was bottled on 8/11/13), it might be my favorite rye beer on the market, being in a dead heat with Boulevard's Rye-on-Rye. If you narrow it to more drinkable, non-BA rye beers, Red's is easily tops in my book. I would definitely recommend trying to get your hands on a fresh bottle. It makes a huge difference, especially in the aroma.

Will do! Will look for RoR too.

PS: Lambic Pentameter resonates amusingly with this poet. Clever wordplay.

 

Yes they DID! It now wholesales for $51.50. The store you bought it from is still pricing it at the old cost.

 

But it is Founders decision. FWIW, all stores mark beer up about 30%.

 

Overwhelming mediocrity at a premium. Meh

 

It's really too bad they decided to raise the price on this and change it to 4packs. I don't see this coming back in the same fashion next year.

 

I saw these for 12$ a 4 pack.

... I think they were 10$ in 6 packs earlier this year.

 

Y

Yea because its super old. At least Julio's is doing the right thing and marking it down - though I think it should be even lower. That said I'm still seeing uninformed stores in the Chelmsford area still trying to charge $12-15 for the same 4 packs with same bottled on date as the Julio's stacks (12-31-12).

I'm not sure how others feel but I really prefer FBS fresh rather than not. With so many other great beers out there to try at a similar/same price point, I pass on it at 9 months old.

I assumed the reds rye would have the same sku/price as the other 4 packs when it came out, but haven't really gotten annoyed about it till now. Fresh, it's one of my fav hoppy beers ever. However, Just knowing that they could afford to sell it in a 6 pack at 1099 (going price in Boston burbs and north of Boston as long as I can remember) and now sell it at same price - minus 2 12 oz bottles - really irks me as a founders fan and consumer in general. That said Founders is still one of my favorite breweries ever and Ill still def buy their products, because at the end of the day, it's just exceptional beer.

 

So there are stores that actually have had six or more cases of FBS sitting in the back room for the past nine months? I saw a stack just as big if not bigger on sale for $10 each fourpack in Western Mass. at two different stores during the same week (end of August) as what I saw at Julio's in Eastern Mass. for $8.49. I bought one fourpack from one of those stacks. I suppose I had better try one to see if it's as good as it was last Spring when I drank my first FBS.

As to Red's price increase, as the consumer end of the craft beer movement continues to grow, some price inflation is to be expected. Plus it is clear from this thread that many BA's really love fresh Red's. So if Founders thinks they can get $11/4 and believe they will still sell it all, ... But I'm certainly feeling your disappointment. I have passed on a number of good beer buying ops because I had enough other stuff to drink at home and thought what I saw might appear somewhere else for $1 less. Nobody wants to feel they overpaid, or were somehow exploited.

 

Was expecting this to taste better.

 

Well isn't that appropriate... considering that these prices are absolutely InSaNe!!!1

 

I guess it is possible, when I brought the case to the counter the guy said "Oh we just got that on Monday, we haven't been able to get it for a long time" It didn't sound like they were familiar with the changes founder's made this year. I would have thought they would have at least noticed they sold the case for $15 under wholesale though.

 

I think many people are failing to see how Founders works. They keep their pricing very simple. Anything that comes in 6-packs is the same price ($9 out-the-door at the brewery and a little more due to tax and shipping and handling). Seasonal stuff is all the same and in 4-packs ($10). The special release stuff is released once per year (and listed only in 1 month on their schedule) and is sold in 4-packs ($19). Backstage Series beers may vary. But for those of you who complain about abv: don't buy All Day IPA. They just reintroduced it to the year-round list because it obviously sold well enough to do so (and this beer has a pretty short shelf-life). They sell Dirty Bastard, a beer that is 8.5% abv, for the same price as All Day IPA. If you want them to lower the price of ADIPA, they could easily justify raising the price of DB. But they keep it simple so that the guy who prefers one can get it for approximately $9. If you prefer the other, you're still paying the same price. If you are buying a 6-pack based on abv and you want some Founders, you go with DB. If you are buying on what"s your favorite, you don't have to do the math, figure out cost per unit ethanol, and find a compromise... you just get what you fancy at that time and already know the price.

While I do think it would have been nice for Founders to keep the price of Red's Rye the same but just cut it to 4-packs, they may be saving that for another time. They would have to register a new SKU in order to avoid confusion in many retailers' systems that just keep that one SKU in for each seasonal. One thing they could do is keep it in 6-packs AND release it seasonally, but perhaps that would cause some logistical trouble. Remember, they have accountants and/or consultants helping them figure out how to price this stuff. Breakfast Stout in 6-packs would have been nice, but would be by far the most expensive 6-pack beer to produce so they've sidelined that for now. I still think that's coming once the tweak the brewing schedule some more and perhaps add another beer to the year-round line-up. They will certainly be adding capacity since they now have the ability to do so for at least a couple of years. Also, they have NOT raised the price of draft Red's Rye. The theory is that (at any random point in time) you will have a better chance finding it fresh on draft than in bottles, so it is offered year round in this format. You can get a growler of the stuff, but there's no guarantee that it will last as long as it would in bottles. However, it just so happens to work out that if it is in a growler, it is much more unlikely so find itself sitting in the back of your refrigerator for 4 months. This is a business, in the real world... not EVERYBODY is going to be happy with everything, but there are many choices inside and outside the Founders family. Not everybody operates the exact same way. Drink what you like and are willing to spend money on. If this new packaging/pricing scheme doesn't work in the way Founders hopes it will, they will change it, one way or another.

Cheers!

 

Me too. I honestly thought I remembered a better hop aroma and taste. Just me?