Fremont Brewing/Pine Box 1st Anniversary beer!!!

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by t4h2c0, Mar 21, 2013.

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  1. NWer

    NWer Defender (696) Mar 10, 2009 Washington
    Beer Trader

    After $30 for BW 14 I've crashed & burned on $20+ bottles. Passing for a while.
     
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  2. John_M

    John_M Moderator (5,372) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    I guess I need to taste the "rareness" to properly understand the $20 price tag, as otherwise I'm having a very difficult time justifying that kind of money for a non-barrel aged, RIS.
     
  3. TheEarl

    TheEarl Initiate (0) Apr 10, 2012 Washington

    I opted for the Schooner Exact brown sour and the "First Nail" stout. Both were great.

    Some Fremont guy was there and he said they were worried they put too much cinnamon into the beer. I wouldn't say it was too spicy but it was very cinnamon-forward. With barrel characteristics, it might be kind of a mess. I guess we'll see next year.

    PS - I hear that Schooner may start bottling their sours. They're on the tame side of sourness, which I personally like.
     
  4. goodbyeohio

    goodbyeohio Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2004 Oregon

    its so cute how they put on a big event and its mostly oregon beers
     
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  5. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,400) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    I kind of wondered about the cinnamon element, particularly OakedCanuck's "cinnamon bomb" comment. The label clearly urges aging of this beer (for "several years"), which I expect would tend to mellow out the cinnamon. I wonder if they put the advice to age this beer based on their concerns that it's too cinnamon-forward fresh.

    I also was somewhat taken aback by the price (originally I was thinking I'd buy two if it was $15 or less), but I figured I hoofed it over there in the middle of my work day and unfortunately didn't have time to try a glass on tap. I'm pretty burned out on the high-priced bottles lately too, gonna try to maintain some discipline for a while...
     
  6. Prufrockstar

    Prufrockstar Initiate (139) Jan 15, 2013 Washington

    When I called Fremont yesterday, they said bottles should go on sale at the brewery next week, probably with a 2 bottle / person limit, $15/bottle.
     
  7. TheEarl

    TheEarl Initiate (0) Apr 10, 2012 Washington

    Regarding the wacky pricing of these anniversary beers, it would be interesting to get more detail on the deals these places strike with the breweries.

    My understanding is that the deals are in the $20,000 - $40,000 range depending on the scale of the order and the pedigree of the brewery. I guess that's a scary bet for a bottleshop or bar to make but I feel like they shouldn't be trying to profit hugely off these special releases. I doubt it cost Pine Box $20/bottle or Bottleworks $30/bottle.
     
  8. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,400) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    D'oh!
     
  9. OakedCanuck

    OakedCanuck Initiate (0) Jun 23, 2009 Washington

    Wow, so Pine Box marked it up 33%? What a bunch of dicks. Glad I didn't buy the limit.
     
  10. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,400) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Gives the name of this beer a whole new meaning.
     
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  11. Mages64

    Mages64 Initiate (0) Sep 7, 2009 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Can't tell if you are joking. 30% is industry standard...
     
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  12. slinkie

    slinkie Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2011 Washington

    What's the deal with all the SeattleBeer<Animal> untappd names anyway?
     
  13. OakedCanuck

    OakedCanuck Initiate (0) Jun 23, 2009 Washington

    Partially. Isn't that mark up applied by bottle shops after the beer goes through a distributor? (honest question, I'm not sure on how that works). Did this beer go through a distributor between Fremont and Pine Box? If so then ya, I can see the mark up if Fremont sold the beer to PB for $15.

    But if PB just marked it up an extra $5 just because it was a special event....knowing that Fremont will be selling it next week....

    Whatever, I enjoyed the beer.
     
  14. Mages64

    Mages64 Initiate (0) Sep 7, 2009 Washington
    Beer Trader

    I can tell you exactly what happened. Fremont's wholesale price is 10.49. At Fremont they take a 30% margin for to go sales at the brewery. = 14.99.
    Fremont sold that beer through Odom distributing by charging 10.49 to Odom. Odom took a 25% margin bringing it to 14$. Pine box took a 30% margin: grand total 20$ :)
    Colin I'm not "correcting" you or anything!! Just thought I'd share how this works:)
    Cheers,
    Dan
     
  15. OakedCanuck

    OakedCanuck Initiate (0) Jun 23, 2009 Washington

    Ok thanks Dan for the clarification! I kinda figured they went through Odom resulting in the price bump.

    Cheers!
     
  16. jpbebeau

    jpbebeau Disciple (335) Sep 11, 2011 Washington
    Beer Trader

    I drank the beer. I liked the beer a lot. I bought two bottles. I just wish I would've known that I could've enjoyed it on draft at the party and picked up bottles later. And after a couple beers and a pizza I wasn't thinking clearly and tipped based on the total bill (which included $40 in "retail"). Expensive night.
    But good.
     
  17. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,400) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    So just curious, how does this differ (if at all) from the Bottleworks anniversary beer? My understanding was that Cascade sold bottles for $30. Bottleworks sold bottles for $30. Does Cascade self-distribute? And/or is there another reason there was no difference in price between the brewery and the store/bar celebrating the anniversary?
     
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  18. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Sep 21, 2010 Washington

    Why would an anniversary beer have to be distributed? Is this required by WA State?
     
  19. Mages64

    Mages64 Initiate (0) Sep 7, 2009 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Cascade self distributes so they just dropped their price by 30% to sell it to BW. They then probably took extra margin to sell it from their barrel house.
    every beer must be distributed:) self or otherwise. Fremont goes with Odom not self I guess.
     
  20. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Sep 21, 2010 Washington

    Kind of strange, though. I know Capitol Hill is all the way over there, but, you'd think they'd just bring the cases over. Or at least have PB come and pick them up.

    I'm assuming this won't be available at bottle shops in the area? Just Fremont and PB?
     
  21. HuskyinPDX

    HuskyinPDX Poo-Bah (2,483) Jan 23, 2011 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Fremont said next week, no limit set (so far) and not sure on price, when I called today.
     
  22. Texwild

    Texwild Initiate (167) May 1, 2008 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Well, "dicks" is a little strong. Hairy and tattooed maybe, but, no, not dicks. Here's the deal: The First Nail was an extremely expensive beer to brew based on the grain bill and the added ingredients. Now, add in the extra $1500 for labels on a 60-case run, and then the bottling and the high cost of wax, and then you start to get the picture. Neither Pine Box nor Fremont (us) jacked up pricing to screw people out of money based on this beer being "rare" etc. Fremont's philosophy is exactly the opposite of this mentality. We line-priced the beer based on costs. Period. If we wanted to play the price game based on popularity, we would charge much more for Bbomb or KDS or Summer, etc. So, please, put the pitch fork away. We make about $12-18/hour. How much do you make? If you make more, are you "screwing" your customers out of money?
    Remember this, too: the craft beer business is a ton of fun and very rewarding, but margins are extremely low. Most of our customers make more money than we do. I'm not complaining, I'm just laying down the facts. We keep our prices low to very fair in order to allow our customers to access beers that normally would be priced beyond their means.
    On another subject: with only 60 cases made of The First Nail, we decided not to distribute through our wholesalers and simply sell it at the PB and the brewery rather than face the wrath of every account who didn't get "enough" or any due to the limited number of cases.
     
  23. OakedCanuck

    OakedCanuck Initiate (0) Jun 23, 2009 Washington

    I was being facetious and a bit tongue in cheek, sorry if you missed that.

    I have never felt that you guys jack up your prices. You are easily my favourite brewery and I buy a shit tonne of your beers and will continue to do so. Don't worry about how much money I make, just remember that us customers keep your lights on.
     
  24. Mages64

    Mages64 Initiate (0) Sep 7, 2009 Washington
    Beer Trader

    I love hearing from Texwild:) not once do I see his screen name and think "dammit, diatribe coming".
    I tell many aspiring brewers the same thing he said... Brew for the love of craft beer, not to make money. Because you won't make any money for a LONG time.
    As far as bypassing a distributor, that makes sense to me. Will you line price your bottles with pine box so there is no internal competition? Not a big deal but I'd drive across town to save 5$ a bottle. My $0.02
     
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  25. Texwild

    Texwild Initiate (167) May 1, 2008 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Yeah, sorry if I missed that. I know you're a great customer and thank you for walking with us as we go on. It's hard to communicate how much that means to me. The price thing is such a double-edged convo it requires a beer and face to face hang time. Either way, I don't worry about how much anyone makes.....that's why I left the law and started a brewery :)
     
    OakedCanuck likes this.
  26. Texwild

    Texwild Initiate (167) May 1, 2008 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Thanks for the kind words...some day you have to tell me where you work b/c your knowledge of the industry is clearly backed by either 1. a ton of drinking beer with industry folks at beer events or 2. job experience. I always appreciate your input to these forum postings.

    Pricing. Well, your point is well taken. However, the difference reflects two things: as we step into the shoes of the distributor by self distributing the beer, we then sell beer to retail accounts with the retail markup usually charged by the distributor as opposed to the price we sell beer to distributors as a supplier only. The 30% markup of the retail account is your price. For example, our Bourbon Abominable sells for $15 at the brewery and $18-20 in the market.

    Ian and Dean will easily sell through their bottles. However, I would not charge customers and extra %30 to line price a beer with any retail account. Now, Ian and Dean are amazing guys and we had many beers talking about this beer. All is well. No rivalry intended, just two businesses who understand their own model...and care more about the beer.

    Back to beer...have you tried the SBW Pale?
     
  27. podunkparte

    podunkparte Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2009 Washington

    Headed down to the Pine Box tonight for the first time and I was pretty impressed by the number of taps they had running and the quality of beer on those taps. Started with a Tilquin Gueuze, followed by Sucaba, Hop Venom, and finally First Nail, which was different, but pretty damn delicious. I really dig the cinnamon in it. It's very reminiscent of the BA Abraxas I got to try at a bottle share. I feel like the depth of flavor here that a lot of people including myself love in barrel aged stouts comes through great with the cinnamon. Nice beer, Tex!
     
  28. John_M

    John_M Moderator (5,372) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    I understand, but please try to see this from a customer standpoint.

    I don't disbelieve anything you say, but on the other hand, I do buy a fair amount of craft beer, and so I have what I feel is general notion as to what things ought to cost. In my experience, barrel aged impy stouts seem to run between $15 and $25, while non-barrel aged versions seem to run in the $8 to $15 range. That's for a 750 ml or 22 ounce bottle. So when I see a place selling a non-barrel aged impy stout for $20 out the door, I think it's only reasonable that a knowledgeable customer is going to think that's a bit high, and wonder what's up.

    Also, with respect to this comment:

    'The First Nail was an extremely expensive beer to brew based on the grain bill and the added ingredients'

    Again, don't take this the wrong way, but I've yet to hear any brewer tell me that they only used cheap, standard ingredients in the making of their impy stout. So that part of your explanation isn't resonating very well with me.

    At the end of the day, we all have to make purchasing choices based on a variety of factors, and cost is always going to be one of those factors. For a lot of us, it's thee most important factor. Maybe the price for First Nail is justified, but it just seems a bit much to me, and I suspect it's an opinion that a lot of folks are going to continue to have about it. Just my two cents...
     
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  29. distantmantra

    distantmantra Savant (944) May 23, 2011 Washington
    Beer Trader

    It's my group of friends. We're just having fun.
     
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  30. BuckeyeOne

    BuckeyeOne Zealot (507) Mar 9, 2008 Washington

    Texwild is selling this beer for $15 at his brewery. Pine Box marked it up to $20.
     
  31. John_M

    John_M Moderator (5,372) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    Good point. Still kind of expensive for a non-barrel aged impy stout though...
     
  32. BuckeyeOne

    BuckeyeOne Zealot (507) Mar 9, 2008 Washington

    Agreed, especially since we can get a growler of Dark Star Imperial Oatmeal Stout for the same price. Of this, I am a big fan.

    Regardless, I'll pick up a bottle of 1st Nail anyway.
     
  33. deathcharms

    deathcharms Initiate (68) Jul 11, 2009 California

    (Collective)You are pretty much showing Fremont to not make interesting beers with your sandy vagina whining. Seriously, if you don't like the price don't buy it. They price their beers due to ingredients and market not to make 6 figures.
     
  34. oregone

    oregone Initiate (0) Jul 2, 2008 Oregon

     
  35. podunkparte

    podunkparte Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2009 Washington

    While not barrel aged, First Nail also had more ingredients than just the malt, water, hops, and yeast. If nothing more, there was a ton of cinnamon used which I'm sure isn't cheap and it also makes the beer much more interesting than other typical Imperial Stouts that aren't barrel aged. The way I see it you pay for that interesting aspect in a good beer either with the barrels or, if no barrels are used, some other creative ingredients.

    $20 is not that big of a deal guys. Try the beer before you cast any judgement, and if you still don't like it but are bitching about an extra $5, I'm sure you'll see another $5 in your life pretty soon.
     
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  36. beefandbean22

    beefandbean22 Aspirant (292) Oct 15, 2008 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Well, I went by today and the person working said I couldn't take a bottle to go because they had hard liquor. I was a little confused by this, and with the price, $20 for on site consumption seemed a little crazy. I was a little sad that I couldn't take one on my way, because I doubt I will be able to pick one up at Fremont before they sell out.
     
  37. podunkparte

    podunkparte Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2009 Washington

    This was at the pine box? That person was either very wrong or someone screwed up planning their anniversary because I took 3 bottles home the other day.
     
    beertunes likes this.
  38. Texwild

    Texwild Initiate (167) May 1, 2008 Washington
    Beer Trader

    We need beer to continue this one and a sit down face to face. Cost is a fun subject but too much to capture here. For the record, we provide 100% covered health and life insurance and sweet salaries for the industry so our "cost" for the beer is high compared to the industry norm. Again, not bitching and def not laughing on way to the bank but another element to consider. Anyway, I'm off to read books.

    How about a BA get together next month? We can feel out and drink $4 pints at the brewery.
     
  39. Texwild

    Texwild Initiate (167) May 1, 2008 Washington
    Beer Trader

    That was "geek" out, not "feel" out :)
     
  40. Mages64

    Mages64 Initiate (0) Sep 7, 2009 Washington
    Beer Trader

    I'm SO in :) when and what time? :)
     
    beertunes likes this.
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