Fresh Hop 2019

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by BBThunderbolt, Jul 27, 2019.

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  1. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    You guys do such a great job with fresh hop ipas, I'm puzzled by the decision to make a fresh hop pils. Outside of a fh Braumeister pils I had from Victory some years ago, I've never had a lager where I felt the fresh hops brought anything interesting to the party. I plan to keep an open mind and look forward to sampling your version, but I'm puzzled by the decision to make a fh pils.
     
    #21 John_M, Aug 10, 2019
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  2. sharpski

    sharpski Grand Pooh-Bah (3,100) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Given the lagering time, are fresh hop lagers typically “wet/dry-hopped” closer to packaging, or are the fresh hops used before lagering with the hope that the FH character will still be evident afterwards? Does this beer still utilize the dry ice shatter FH method?
     
    #22 sharpski, Aug 11, 2019
  3. sharpski

    sharpski Grand Pooh-Bah (3,100) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Sterling hops are not likely to make much impact in an IPA, FH or otherwise, so I’m guessing access to fresh Sterlings drove the beer style decision vs. starting with a desired style and designing the subsequent hop bill in this case. Although with non-noble hop usage in pilsners/lagers on the rise, who’s to say there won’t be multiple FH Italian Pilsners/ West Coast Pilsners/ IPL’s this year? Either way, I’ll be keeping an open mind like you and hoping Breakside’s FH Pils is a surprise highlight of the 2019 season. One of my favorite things about FH season is the unexpected wow moments.
     
    #23 sharpski, Aug 11, 2019
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  4. vurt

    vurt Grand Pooh-Bah (4,504) Apr 11, 2004 Oregon
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Baerlic has done a fresh hop helles called Hellsner that was just terrific.
     
    #24 vurt, Aug 11, 2019
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  5. afrokaze

    afrokaze Pooh-Bah (1,962) Jun 12, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    We did this beer with the same fresh hop last year and really enjoyed it, so we decided to bring it back. Personally, I like that we try to do something outside of the styles you might typically expect for fresh hop season. Plus, I think the rest of our FH beers will be some sort of IPA, and not everyone enjoys IPAs, so no harm in doing one that's a little different. Hope you like it, cheers.
     
    #25 afrokaze, Aug 11, 2019
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  6. afrokaze

    afrokaze Pooh-Bah (1,962) Jun 12, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yep, the pils will still use the flash frozen hops - basically all of our FH beers are "dry hopped" in the brite tank for a few days just before being packaged, so the aroma and flavor of the FH are preserved as much as possible.
     
    #26 afrokaze, Aug 11, 2019
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  7. afrokaze

    afrokaze Pooh-Bah (1,962) Jun 12, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Sterling brings a lot of similar flavors to the beer that you might expect from noble hops - floral and spicy, but with some American hop fruitiness that makes it a little more interesting. It's a fun hop to use and has a great flavor without overshadowing the more delicate aspects of the pilsner. Hope you like it, cheers.
     
    #27 afrokaze, Aug 11, 2019
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  8. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Have had it and agree it was good. However, I thought it a good example of what I memtioned in my previous post. I didn't feel the fresh hops added much to the nose or flavor profile.

    I love fresh hop beers, particularly when they add a unique flavor component to the mix. For the most part, I only seem to get that in APA's and IPA's (though Crux made a fh saison a couple years ago that I thought was terrific).
     
    #28 John_M, Aug 11, 2019
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  9. derftron

    derftron Pooh-Bah (1,663) Feb 8, 2012 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I thought this one from Matchless had a nice FH taste to it. i bought quite a few last year when the IPAs were beginning to wear down my palate

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/47868/306798/?ba=jakecattleco
     
    #29 derftron, Aug 13, 2019
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  10. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    One thing I've noticed, is that more and more FH lagers are being made each year. I go to the FH event in Hood River and Portland every year, and so got to try quite a few different one's last year. Some were better than others, but none of them had that unique "fresh hop aroma/flavor" I can so often pick up in IPA's and APA's. It just made wonder why a lot of breweries even bother to make them.
     
    #30 John_M, Aug 13, 2019
  11. Naikoon

    Naikoon Initiate (0) May 25, 2018 Washington

    Maybe because, as stated above, some solid brewers enjoy the process of experimentation with fresh hops, and some consumers aside from you actually appreciate those results.

    Pretty simple, at the end of the day. A wider diversity in tastes, styles, and execution is a good thing.
     
    #31 Naikoon, Aug 14, 2019
  12. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    What do you feel those "results" consist of?

    As I mentioned, I've enjoyed a number of the FH lagers I've sample over the past few years, but didn't understand the point or purpose of adding fresh hops. In other words, it seemed to me as if those beers would have tasted pretty much the same even if the brewer hadn't used fresh hop versions. In my experience, that's been the case well over 90% of the time.

    I don't want to just repeat myself, so let me just use Laurelwood's workhorse IPA as an example. The FH version has generally been quite different than the regular version. Personally, I like both versions, but the fresh hops add a different aroma and flavor component that I think really sets it apart. So making a fresh hop version of the workhorse makes complete sense to me. FH pallet jack is another great example. Both great beers (the regular and the FH version), but very distinctly different in aroma and flavor.

    I don't get that in most FH lagers, which is the reason for my post. I'm trying to understand what it is that the brewer is going for in a FH lager, seeing as how the addition of fresh hops in the recipe doesn't seem to add anything distinctive (at least not that I can generally discern) to the aroma or flavor profile.

    If you've had the chance to sample a fh hop version of a lager and then the same lager without fresh hops, are you able to tell the difference?
     
    #32 John_M, Aug 14, 2019
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  13. distantmantra

    distantmantra Pooh-Bah (2,954) May 23, 2011 Washington
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Looking forward to my annual single can of Two Beers FH and then being like "yeah, I'm glad I only bought a single can."
     
    #33 distantmantra, Aug 14, 2019
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  14. derftron

    derftron Pooh-Bah (1,663) Feb 8, 2012 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    lmao. they are always first out the gate, and always oh so underwhelming :slight_frown:
     
    #34 derftron, Aug 14, 2019
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  15. sharpski

    sharpski Grand Pooh-Bah (3,100) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    On one hand, I want all FH beers to be awesome. On the other, my “FH season experience” would suck if the best one came out first and it was all downhill from there.
     
    #35 sharpski, Aug 14, 2019
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  16. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I always buy a couple, just on principle. Supporting the process.
     
    #36 BBThunderbolt, Aug 15, 2019
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  17. Naikoon

    Naikoon Initiate (0) May 25, 2018 Washington

    I can perceive a difference, and about as often as I can with FH APAs/IPAs. Which is to say not each and every time, but enough to make me happy. So I'm grateful for that little extra bit of variety in FH styles and for brewers who are willing to take chances and try something new.

    In short, I disagree with your subjective experience. Doesn't make you wrong (or me right), but just because you don't understand the point of something or share the exact same perceptions as others doesn't mean those realities beyond your own are invalid. Or that they have to be endlessly explained and defended until they aren't.
     
    #37 Naikoon, Aug 15, 2019
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  18. John_M

    John_M Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,849) Oct 25, 2003 Washington
    Mod Team Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    A reasonable response, except I'm still waiting for a single example. The fact you're unable or unwilling to provide one makes me question your answer. In short, I'm not convinced your response is based on actual experience (but instead is just something you think sounds good).

    You're of course are entitled to your opinion, but it would be nice if it were based on an actual experience you can point to. My guess is that I probably shouldn't hold my breath waiting for one.
     
    #38 John_M, Aug 15, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  19. BBThunderbolt

    BBThunderbolt Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,846) Sep 24, 2007 Kiribati
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    FWIW, IMHO, I find a brewery making a fresh hop pale or IPA predictable.

    Enjoyable, but, certainly, predictable. I like when the expected is great, but also enjoy when an atypical style is tackled.

    In other words: ISO FH BBA maple Saison, with Brett.

    Uh, just for science, ya umderstand......
     
    #39 BBThunderbolt, Aug 15, 2019
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  20. Naikoon

    Naikoon Initiate (0) May 25, 2018 Washington

    I can't fathom why you think I'd lie about this, but I'll give you the examples you desperately need if it'll put this to bed once and for all.

    Last year I had 4, 3 of which I thoroughly enjoyed. Not a bad percentage even if it's a small sample. A Holy Mountain collab with Burial and Other Half, Valley of Kings, was my favorite. The FH version of Cloudburst's Happy Little Clouds was also excellent. And the aforementioned Crosby Hop Farm FH pils from Matchless wasn't far behind. (The 4th was so unmemorable that I've forgotten it.) To my palate, there was some really nice FH character in all of them while still remaining true to style.

    Do you believe me now, or must I provide the CCTV footage and fMRI scans of me actually drinking these beers before you'll accept that someone other than you can appreciate them?

    Either way, I've said my piece. It's better if this thread gets back to celebrating the wonderful bounty which envelops us rather than bickering over irreconcilable differences in taste.
     
    #40 Naikoon, Aug 15, 2019
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