Frost-Free freezer Question

Discussion in 'Home Bar' started by Johntomk, Sep 9, 2015.

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  1. Johntomk

    Johntomk Zealot (678) Jul 22, 2014 Tennessee
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    I purchased a Kenmore 16.6 cu. ft. upright freezer on Sunday. I can't wait until it is delivered Saturday! I will finally be able to free up my kegerator. I'll be using a Johnson Controls a419 (same as the one on my kegerator). For those of you with frost free freezers, have you guys had any issues using a temperature controller on a unit with auto defrost? Does the defrost timer reset each time the controller cute power to the freezer? If so, then I can't imagine it being a problem. I'm just not sure how the auto defrost timer works. Thanks!
     
    #1 Johntomk, Sep 9, 2015
  2. Lazhal

    Lazhal Pooh-Bah (1,890) Mar 13, 2011 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I realize this doesn't answer your question, but I always worry about this...

    Return it before it gets delivered and instead switch to an upright freezerless fridge. Kenmore makes a 16.7cu if you like that brand, no cost with the temp control, and you can still keep it at ~50 degrees without any worry one day there might be a hiccup and you just lost $1000 (or much more) of beer.
     
    #2 Lazhal, Sep 9, 2015
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  3. Johntomk

    Johntomk Zealot (678) Jul 22, 2014 Tennessee
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    I thought about the freezerless fridge, but decided against it. My understanding is that they are not as well insulated as a freezer. I can't imagine there is much difference beyond that. They also don't have a lock, which I really wanted since this will be in a garage.

    I'm not really worried about beer freezing since the controller can be set to shut off if there is a probe failure. If worse comes to worst, then I guess I will just have to disconnect the wire to the auto defrost. If I don't have to, then I'd rather not do it. Thanks for the suggestion though.
     
    #3 Johntomk, Sep 10, 2015
  4. Lazhal

    Lazhal Pooh-Bah (1,890) Mar 13, 2011 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I always wondered about insulation too. Since the fridge costs slightly more, I wonder if it is "better" somehow.

    Could be materials, quality, manufacturing challenges or just plain old demand.
     
    #4 Lazhal, Sep 10, 2015
  5. Johntomk

    Johntomk Zealot (678) Jul 22, 2014 Tennessee
    Trader

    I wish we had a refrigerator technician or engineer on the forums that knows the answers to these design questions. My gut feeling tells me the reason the price is so high for freezerless refrigerators is that there is not a large selection in the market. I would guess that it costs less to manufacture a fridge without a freezer, but who knows.
     
    #5 Johntomk, Sep 10, 2015
  6. mhenson42

    mhenson42 Maven (1,409) Nov 20, 2011 Texas
    Trader

    If you have the temperature set at cellar temperature, won't it be too warm to even cause it to frost?
     
    #6 mhenson42, Sep 10, 2015
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  7. Johntomk

    Johntomk Zealot (678) Jul 22, 2014 Tennessee
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    That's one of the things I'm unsure of. From everything I have read, older defrost timers are just a mechanical timer, whereas newer timers determine when to defrost based on compressor running time, number of door openings, etc. Idk how "smart" they are. I wonder if it will eventually turn defrost on no matter what, or not.
     
    #7 Johntomk, Sep 10, 2015
  8. dphalpin

    dphalpin Crusader (436) Jul 3, 2012 Virginia
    Trader

    I just bought a frost-free freezer after returning one that was not frost-free. I had major humidity/condensation issues with the first one. However, I love the frost-free unit. I have had it about 3 weeks now with no issues at all. The only liquid anywhere in the freezer is where the Johnson control probe goes into the door (I did not do any drilling). No frost and the humidity hovers around the 56% mark.

    Good luck OP.
     
    #8 dphalpin, Sep 15, 2015
  9. BrettHead

    BrettHead Initiate (0) Sep 18, 2010 Nebraska

    Or just set your temp controller so when it fails it turns off instead of stays on. Warm beer > frozen beer.

    edit: I see he covered this in his first response. That's what I get for responding before continuing to read :slight_smile:
     
    #9 BrettHead, Sep 17, 2015
  10. Johntomk

    Johntomk Zealot (678) Jul 22, 2014 Tennessee
    Trader

    Thanks for the info. I finally got mine up and running over the weekend, and I have plenty of room to expand! I ended up drilling a small hole for my temp probe. On the back of the freezer, there was already a hole about the size of a half-dollar in the metal backing. You can see it in the first picture below. I cut a hole in the foam and then drilled a hole. Next I ran the temp probe through the hole and filled it with expanding insulation foam. The wire shelving seems to be sagging, so I am going to reinforce it.


    This is a stock picture of the freezer, but it shows the location of the hole. It was under the tape.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    The hole drilled for the temp probe:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #10 Johntomk, Sep 23, 2015
  11. vette-ss

    vette-ss Zealot (737) Nov 5, 2014 Michigan
    Trader

    Yeah that shelf sagging is a problem. It's clearly overloaded with too much BC. I can help you fix that.

    Wife said mother in law has an upright freezer to give away. My first thought was what are we gonna do with that? Now I know.
     
    #11 vette-ss, Sep 24, 2015
  12. Johntomk

    Johntomk Zealot (678) Jul 22, 2014 Tennessee
    Trader

    That's awesome. I'm going to get square aluminum tubing and use U clamps to attach them to the bottoms of each shelf. That will make them solid, and it's easy to do.
     
    #12 Johntomk, Sep 24, 2015
  13. dphalpin

    dphalpin Crusader (436) Jul 3, 2012 Virginia
    Trader

    Great set up! Can you explain a little further how you plan on reinforcing the shelves? My shelf sag is not as pronounced as yours but still a concern. The front lip of the upper shelves is almost without support so I have nothing on them now. I would love to maximize the space and reinforce the shelves.
     
    #13 dphalpin, Sep 24, 2015
  14. Johntomk

    Johntomk Zealot (678) Jul 22, 2014 Tennessee
    Trader

    I plan on reinforcing them tomorrow, and I will post some pics of it. It will be a little easier to explain what I'm doing. All I'm doing is getting square aluminum tubing, cutting it to the length of the shelf, and attaching it to the underside with U-bolt clamps. I'm essentially adding 2 extra trusses. It should be pretty cheap. Lowe's will even cut the tubing to the length I need, so it will be as simple as clamping it to the shelf. I won't have to worry about rust since I will be using aluminum. Also, it won't impede airflow throughout the unit like glass would.
     
    #14 Johntomk, Sep 25, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
  15. dphalpin

    dphalpin Crusader (436) Jul 3, 2012 Virginia
    Trader

    Awesome, I look forward to seeing the pics. Thanks!
     
    #15 dphalpin, Sep 27, 2015
  16. vette-ss

    vette-ss Zealot (737) Nov 5, 2014 Michigan
    Trader

    So I got my freezer over the weekend (free) and it looks to be a pretty nice unit. BUT....it's not frost free. Maybe this is the wrong place for this since it's off topic for this thread but wondering if I convert this using the same method as above if I will have condensation issues. Looking for someone with experience converting a non-frost-free freezer into a beer cellar.
     
    #16 vette-ss, Sep 28, 2015
  17. dphalpin

    dphalpin Crusader (436) Jul 3, 2012 Virginia
    Trader

    I am by no means an expert on this, but I could never get the condensation issues under control with my non-frost free freezer. I tried putting in a wireless dehumidifier which slightly helped but my top shelf was just dripping. As a result, my bottles on the bottom were soaked. Ultimately, I ended up returning it (thanks, Sears!) and bought a frost-free unit. YMMV, it was the middle of the summer and was quite humid in our basement.
     
    #17 dphalpin, Sep 28, 2015
  18. vette-ss

    vette-ss Zealot (737) Nov 5, 2014 Michigan
    Trader

    Thanks for the info. My planned location is in the garage (heated, insulated). Doing lots of searching, it sounds like there will be humidity issues and Damp Rid seems to be the best solution. From my search, the wireless dehumidifiers aren't 100% effective. Didn't see a post where Damp Rid didn't work. Guess that's what I'll start with. Don't have my controller yet so ordering that. If I was buying I'd for sure buy a frost free, but can't turn down free as a starter. And I don't have any long term storage plans with this. I used shelves in the basement for that. This is where I'll keep beer short term to drink or IPA types that would be better kept cool. I've overrun the spare fridge with beer so this is to keep the wife happy.
     
    #18 vette-ss, Sep 28, 2015
  19. NP_cheers

    NP_cheers Initiate (0) Jul 22, 2014 Oregon
    Trader

    Any update on your shelf reinforcement? I'm dealing w the same problem of sagging and trying to figure out the best way to fix it.
     
    #19 NP_cheers, Oct 10, 2015
  20. Johntomk

    Johntomk Zealot (678) Jul 22, 2014 Tennessee
    Trader

    Sorry for taking so long to respond. I haven't had a chance to finish reinforcing the shelves, but I will post pics as soon as I finish a shelf. I decided not to use aluminum tubing and clamps. The aluminum tubing cost more than I wanted to spend. Instead, I am using nickel-plated steel rods and mig welding them to the trusses on the shelf. I will update with pics when I complete a shelf. Between law school, work, and preparing to move this coming Friday, I haven't had a chance to finish the project.
     
    #20 Johntomk, Oct 11, 2015
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