fruited sour carbing

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Liberatiscioli, Jun 3, 2016.

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  1. Liberatiscioli

    Liberatiscioli Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Been having issues with carbing EVERYTHING and I dont want to screw this up over a year old project .....

    Did a TOD clone took 2 separate 1 gallon portions and put one on blackberry and madagascar vanilla, the other blueberry and vanilla.(approx 1lb and a half of fruit in each)

    Will the fruit additions be enough for carb itself? If not I do not want to overcarb like the IPA gushers Ive been having lately. A nice suttle carb would be exactly what I am looking for.

    Suggestions?
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    The fruit will ferment and produce CO2. What kind of container are these in? Unless they are completely sealed, most of the CO2 is going to be lost to the atmosphere. And you don't want to ferment in something airtight unless it can handle the pressure.
     
  3. Liberatiscioli

    Liberatiscioli Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Glass 1 gallon jar with a aluminum/steel lid. Airlock on top. Pretty tight seal. Filled both to the brim to try and avoid any head space whatsoever.
     
  4. Liberatiscioli

    Liberatiscioli Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2013 Pennsylvania

    From your experience will it produce enough CO2 that I could just bottle it without adding priming sugar and still have decent carb?
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I hope your glass jars can handle the pressure.

    Google up the sugar content in ounces per pound of your particular fruit(s). You may need to convert grams to ounces, etc. Multiply what you found by 1.5 to get the sugar content per the 1-1/2 lbs that you used. Then go to a carbonation calculator, such as...
    http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html or if you use BrewCipher, go to the Carbonation tab.
    Enter the volume of your beer (1 gallon) and the temperature of your beer when you racked it to the gallon jar (or the highest fermentation temp it had reached before racking). Then...enter (tweak) the desired (override) CO2 volumes until the amount of sugar required (i.e. the calculator's answer) exactly matches the amount of sugar you had determined was in your 1.5 lbs of fruit. The desired/override CO2 volumes will be what you can expect in your final beer.
     
  6. stealth

    stealth Pooh-Bah (2,023) Dec 16, 2011 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    I would honestly let the beer sit on the fruit for a while - it takes a few weeks at least to get optimal flavor extraction and let the sugars ferment out, then carb normally with sugar. Easier, and much less risky. The thought of glass jars, carboys, whatever, under pressure freaks the fuck out of me.

    That being said, if you were dead set on carbing with fruit, I would macerate the berries to create a thick syrup/juice and use that to bottle condition/carb with. Predictable sugars using Vike's resources above, and safe.
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Too late to edit, but meant to add...
    You could have a real foamy mess on your hands if you do this and then rack the carbonated beer from the jars to bottles, particularly if you do it at room temp.

    Also, in my head, without doing actual math, 1.5 pounds of blueberries in one gallon of beer could blow up real good. So do the math.
     
  8. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    It's not only the fermentation head space that you need to account for. The blueberries will take up a fair amount of volume. Don't rely on fruit for carbonation. Use something predictable like table sugar after you've let the fruit hang out for a while, like Stealth mentioned above. :slight_smile:
     
    #8 inchrisin, Jun 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
  9. Liberatiscioli

    Liberatiscioli Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2013 Pennsylvania

    that simple eh? lol

    Just to clarify I did not want to carb soley with fruit. I want to see how much the fruit will contribute to the carbonation of the sour.

    If I am reading your first reply right @VikeMan this is what I am interpreting:

    -doing those calculations will tell me the CO2 volumes contributed by MY fruit addition to each one gallon
    - after that I can pick what I want my carb level to be and in doing so

    desired CO2 volume= CO2 volume contributed by fruit + CO2 volume contributed by priming sugar(x) ??

    Also this will mark week 3 on top of fruit. I have not had time to mess with it yet originally wanted to bottle this weekend. May let it go one more week.....
     
  10. Liberatiscioli

    Liberatiscioli Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2013 Pennsylvania

    what is your preferred vessel for sour on fruits??
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Okay, I just now re-read an older post and see that you have an airlock on the jar lids. So once the fermentation of the fruit is done, the amount of CO2 in the beer will be the same as it would have been at the end of primary fermentation, i.e. just the residual CO2. So to carbonate your beer, you'd then use priming sugar as usual, to get whatever level of CO2 you're looking for.
     
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  12. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    I would let the fruit sit at least a month, ferment out to dryness, then use measurable amount of priming sugar to bottle condition. Priming with fruit fermentables is a gamble. How do you plan to measure the grams of sugar the fruit contributes as priming purpose?
     
  13. stealth

    stealth Pooh-Bah (2,023) Dec 16, 2011 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    I use glass carboys mostly, with an airlock. I was under the impression you had your jar completely sealed to contain all co2 created.
     
  14. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    1 gallon batches have a much slimmer margin of error when it comes to carbing because smaller deviations in priming sugar quantity can create a bigger change in carbing compared to a 5 gallon batch. If you have an airlock on the fermenter then you will not get any "carbonation" from the fruit and as others have mentioned, you should allow the fruit to finish fermenting out before you attempt to bottle or you will have too many unpredictable sugars in your still fermenting beer and are almost guaranteed to have bottle bombs. You need to wait to bottle until the gravity has completely stabilized from the fruit sugars and then bottle.

    If you are only making 1 gallon batches then you need ultimate precision in calculating your priming sugar, based on how much wort/beer you are carbing. Assuming you have exactly 1 gallon to carb with every batch and you add the same amount of sugar to prime each time could be your problem here...hops and fruit in your wort will rob you of some of your final volume, and will therefore require less sugar to prime compared to a full gallon. You will most likely need to rack your beer into a bottling bucket and then determine exactly how much volume you have before calculating your priming sugar and then adding it.
     
  15. Liberatiscioli

    Liberatiscioli Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Haven`t really seen any activity in the airlock itself with the fruit in there. Just a few residual bubbles but not a single movement. So end all answer just carb as I normally would an ale?
     
  16. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    Has the gravity stabilized after adding the fruit? If not, don't bottle unless you want bombs/gushers. Once gravity has stabilized for at least a week or 2, add your calculated priming sugar solution and bottle as normal.
     
  17. Liberatiscioli

    Liberatiscioli Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2013 Pennsylvania

    In a nut shell not sure.

    I took 2 one gallon portions from the 6 gallon batch which had a stable FG at 2 readings 2 months apart. So I know what the FG of the un-fruited portion was.

    I`m timid about keeping opening the lids pouring beer into a graduated cylinder for gravity readings since its a sour but I guess thats the nature of the beast. What should I be looking for with the fruited portions as far as gravity goes? Any suggestions or whats your process for this?
     
  18. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    There really aren't any other methods/indicators without taking gravity readings. A refractometer would give you a reading with only a drop or 2 of beer, besides that you could drop a hydrometer in the gallon fermentor and retrieve it after you rack the beer for bottling or snag it if it's floating high enough at the top. Just one of the problems with 1 gallon batches. :/
     
    ssam and Liberatiscioli like this.
  19. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    You're worried about an infection? That ship has sailed, my friend.

    Like usual, you should be looking for a stable SG reading over time, that will indicate fermentation is over.

    If you have been overcarbing everything... are you using a calculator or a pre-measured sack-o-sugar from the LHBS? Its best to measure your own (by weight, not volume) and then make sure you calculate using the real volume, not the original volume of the batch. Spillage, measurement samples, and trub loss of volume may be the reason you are overcarbing.
     
    DrMindbender likes this.
  20. Liberatiscioli

    Liberatiscioli Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2013 Pennsylvania


    That ship has sailed.... Care to elaborate a bit? Is there a point in sour making where infection is no longer a concern? This was my first one.
     
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