G. Oliver: "Brooklyn is local to Philly"

Well, given the presence they have had here for years both in distribution and in things like Philly beer week with beer dinners and the like, no surprise he would feel that way about a place that is also one of the best markets for beer in the US that's "right next door."

 

As a New Jersey resident, saying New York is the same as Philly is absolutely insane. They are very different places. And that's a great thing. To say Philly beer fans would reject a great beer from Brooklyn is also insane (the opposite is also true). Both cities have great beer scenes, but I suspect a Philly fan would rather a great beer from Erie Pa, just as a NYC fan would prefer a great beer from Buffalo, NY over a equal beer from some equidistant non-instate point.
State pride counts for something . . . right.

 

I have loved New York, but Philadelphia is like Boston.

 

Reasonable guesses but in this era of modern transportation Philly actually is reasonably local to New York City, even though they are not the same place. For example I know several folks who think nothing of commuting to NYC for the theater, rock concerts or the Met Opera. (Train service is regular and excellent.)

I personally consider Troeg's to be local even though it's about the same distance away from where I sit as is New York City. Also, as for State Pride preferences in PA, Philly beer fans have no special love for the Western part of the state. After all both Pittsburgh and Erie are about 6 1/2 hours away by expressway driving (whereas NYC is only about 2 hours) and those people in western PA are fans of the Steelers, Penguins and Pirates. (As you might suspect, the rivalry is quite intense. :-) )

 

Well, how can one state be pure east and near mid-west? I'd love to be selling ads!

 

Naw we know it goes west of the river but there just isn't much in between (especially in the upper tiers of counties). In the context of Politics a guy by the name of James Carvell once observed that PA is Philly and Pittsburgh at the two ends with Alabama in the middle. For beer the situation is steadily improving but it's still easier for me to find NYC brewed beers than beers from "Da Burgh" or Erie. Finding beers from the "Alabama" portion of the state is getting easier, but...

The size of PA East to West is the challenge really. There are beers getting distributed into the Western part of the state we don't get around here and vice versa. But we don't mind since the whole Philly beer scene is so vibrant and active that one beer columnist has claimed we drink more Belgian beers here than they do in Brussels. After spending two weeks in Brussels looking for beers that I couldn't find here I took him as being serious. (Talk about your almost fruitless quests... )

Where Oliver could have run into problems is convincing folks here to even bother with his beers. But that worked out well, as I indicated in my first post, through his and BBC's regular participation in Philly Beer Week. (We have some real Oliver fanboys around here.

 

Come to PA and you'll see. It's similar to the differences between the NC Coastal plain region and the Western NC mountains, with the Piedmont in between.

 

Do you mean that as an insult or a compliment to Philadelphia?

 

Pretty sure Joe Ortlieb, owner of Philadelphia's Ortlieb Brewing Co., was quoted as saying something similar in the late 1970s after both Schaefer and Rheingold closed their Brooklyn facilities and the latter sold their labels to Ortlieb's bigger neighbor, C. Schmidt's & Sons. Schmidt's in turn sold Rheingold's McSorley's Ale brand to Ortlieb, which started shipping it to its home NYC metro area, along with other Ortlieb products like Sean O'Shaughnessy "Boarshead" Stout and Coqui 900 malt liquor (the latter replacing Olde English 800 which Ortlieb had contract-brewed for the east coast until Pabst bought Blitz-Weinhard).

 

Oops and too late to "Edit" ---

Forgot to quote Joe Ortlieb's comment
[from The Brewers Digest, Oct., 1979]:

 

:-)

Although there seems more difference than similarity since one effectively says, "There is nobody else there so that makes us it" while the other effectively says, "There's a lot going on there and we are a part of it."

 

Coqui 900 didn't actually replace OE 800. They were sold along side each other for many years with OE 800 generally 20% more expensive in terms of retail, as it was marketed as a more premium product.

 

I know Pennsylvania well. It is like North Carolina- very large, lots of rural areas, a bunch of nice smaller cities, all with great history. I guess my point was that essentially Pa is so large that it stretches from the east coast to what seems like the midwest (Ohio). I love your state! My mother in law was from Pottsville and always brought me 3 cases of Yuengling Porter on each visit home.

 

Definitely a compliment.

 

Ahh, well clearly I was missing your familiarity with PA.

I have three states near and dear to my heart in one way or another (since I've spend much of my life and several formative years in each of them.) Those are PA, NC and UT in no particular order. All are characterized by having both urban areas and lots of rural areas, all have some major geographical differences from one part of the state to another, and all are filled with areas of great natural beauty.

 

As far as people preferring a good beer from one place over another due to geography - I think people that really know and appreciate good beer - prefer good beer regardless of origin.

 

Coqui 900 replaced Olde English 800 in Ortlieb's portfolio. OE was a brand owned by Blitz-Weinhard and, over the years, was contract-brewed by other brewers in other regions of the US. At one point, P. Ballantine & Sons brewed it for the east coast, and eventually (after PBS shutdown) it was done by Ortlieb.

Pabst bought B-W in the late 1970s, and since they had breweries around the country, they dropped the contract with Ortlieb.

So Ortlieb developed the Coqui for their own marketing region to replace it. Yeah, OE was sold alongside Coqui, but they were brewed by different brewers - Pabst and Ortlieb, respectively, in the late 70s/early 80s.

Eventually the Ortlieb brands went to first Schmidt and then to Heileman > Stroh, all 3 of which continued to market Coqui, competing with Pabst's OE. That changed in 1999 when Pabst bought the Stroh/Heileman brands and sold OE to Miller.

 

I agree that with modern roads and trains NYC can be considered local to Philly. I live in the Philly 'burbs and I can get to NYC faster than I can get to Harrisburg (depending on traffic, of course). So, I do feel closer to things happening in New York City than much of western PA. Although I thought this quote from Garrett Oliver in the article was interesting and makes me wonder if he really "gets" why Philadelphians might be skeptical of a New York brewery (underlines by me)

Funny statement because I think one of the main issues many people have with New Yorkers is many share an attitude that the world revolves around New York City. For example, New Yorkers will without a second thought casually refer to NYC as "The City" even when they are standing in completely different city. I suspect that what Mr. Oliver is saying is that New York culture is more accepting of things from outside, which is probably true. New York does have a great history of incorporating peoples from all over the world into the larger culture of the city, but many New Yorkers have twisted that multi-cultural history into a self-aggrandizing belief that everyone in the world wishes they could be in their beloved city. My point is that inwardly-focused attitudes can come in different forms and be equally insufferable.