German craft beer

Does Pax Brau get a tax write-off if that brewery does not succeed?

Prost!

 

Interesting revival of this thread, really. But I definitely need to get some cheesesteak any time very soon!

 

Yeah, I probably would too -- it's back to "when in Rome."

On the other hand, I used to frequent a very nice, German-themed restaurant in Chicago's old German neighborhood that allowed us to bring our own Maß Krug to drink in their Biergarten -- and we got no looks of insanity there -- so what's your point anyway?

Whether you're drinking 8 Krugs or 24 bottles a night, you're bound to get a few sideways looks at some point.

 

You know, this only shows to remind me of my first time in Munich -- before I started to learn some of the customs of my host country -- when I asked the Ober at the Hofbräuhaus if I could have a Weizen in a Maß Krug... I didn't really get the look that I was insane, but more of a "Well, if that's what you wish -- my fine, money-spending, American rube -- I can arrange it."

And so he did. I'd just love to have known the discussion with the pourer, then again -- it was the H-B and I imagine they've seen it all... just like the bar tenders at a brew-pub.

 

Cheaper too!

 

The first part is incorrect. I've tried a few of their beers and they were all very very good. I like that they import Brooklyn Brewery's and Firestone Walker's beers too. The 2nd part is, though technically correct, probably not the case. Their "craft" line is part vanity project by the guy who runs the Radeberger Gruppe, a way to burnish his street cred, so to say, like white suburban kids wearing hip hop clothes, maybe.

Yet also it's a live marketing experiment to see if these beers sell in Germany. These beers are marketed as "gourmand" with all the silly trappings of an expensive wine. However, this is the way wine was originally marketed to the masses in the USA, and it worked. They have to differentiate this product from their other brands, which are almost all marketed in the traditional manner in Germany with boring ads showcasing tradition. And the price of these beers, as are American craft brews, is correspondingly high to fit this gourmet experience, and to be more profitable per bottle.

I don't understand why anyone would wish them ill. They're importing and producing excellent beers. Why is that wrong? I hope they succeed and lead to imitators. This will lead beer out of it's economic and qualitative doldrums in Germany. Look, it's not like their trying to imitate the best Bavarian beers, are they? I think if beer is raised to a more gourmet status, this will help the rest of Germany begin to discover the best beers found in their own backyard, such as in Bayern. So stop being such a Ludite. The movement to beer with a variety of flavors is a good thing… like the saying "a high tide lifts all boats."

Also, that insane comment about drinking 8 Maß in one sitting… shit! 3 would knock me out. What insane person drinks to such excess, unless the beer is around 4%? I'd be under the table or returning my weißwurst to the waiter. That comment reminds of comparing penis sizes, and thus quite puerile.

The comment about getting headaches from mixing brands is always too funny. First, it's very hard to do in Germany because of tied houses, but really? I've challenged a few here in Germany and enjoyed laughing at them when the dreaded headache didn't arrive. It's just a wives tale, but the underlying premise is that if you start with one beer, then stick with it to get to know it well.

You always claim your not German, your Bavarian… so which is it? You either claim to be German or not? Can't have it both ways!

 

This is a great analogy of the average German beer drinker, especially the older set: old man syndrome. Unfortunately for German brewers, old men die off or get diabetes and have to cut out their beer consumption. That wouldn't be a problem if they were being replaced with a new generation, but their not, which leads to rethink of their market segment.

Back to Braufactum discussion. Other than their webpage, and beer drinking meetings, they're putting almost no marketing muscle behind this brand. They could easily push this brand on TV with their full marketing might, but they don't. I can think of a few reasons why, but I have to go to work. I'll let the rest of you mull that over.

BTW, I've been out of action here for 2 main reasons. You'd think the summer doldrums are when everyone in Germany goes on vacation and no one would want English lessons. Though the first part of this premise is true, the opposite is true for English. It seems warm (hot really… temps in the 90s and no AC for anyone) weather brings out everyone who's had a hankering to learn English, so I've been incredibly busy since returning from NYC.

2nd, we got a dog last weekend from the shelter. He's a cute as hell Yorkie and I'v been taking him to all my English courses I teach, but he's also taken all of our time. Here's a pic to verify Lucky's utter cuteness, riding the subway.

 

What I dislike is the infantile snobbery they are promoting – “noble beer” as conspicuous consumption and ideally to be sipped from a wine glass. Apart from that, more power to them.

 

Disagree about Braufactum being "very, very good". Agree about your cute dog. Congrats on Lucky!

 

They import nice stuff. Quite expensive, but probably still cheaper than ordering it online. And looking at their website, they already have a nationwide distribution.
I once had one of their own beers, it was a birthday present from my brother. It was the Roog. It was good and all. But the fancy champagne bottle simply didn't give any information who brewed this beer. There was just an address at Darmstädter Landstraße in Frankfurt, which I found suspicious, knowing that this is the Binding/Henninger site. That was when I found out who they are and who they belong to.
There are so many stupid laws in this country and in the EU (especially concerning beer, wine and food & bev in general), but you can sell beer without telling the consumer which company actually produced this. I hate this.

In general though, I agree with you. Braufactum and now this Bitburger thing may not be the leaders of a new movement, small businesses have already started this before. But the presence of the big players in this segment is an appeal, especially for the many, many regional breweries who may be aware of it, but haven't yet started it, probably due to high cost and high risk. A few weeks ago I found out about a regional brewery I have never heard of before, even though they are not far. Hachenburger, in the Westerwald. Right between Cologne and Frankfurt. I saw their Pils, tried it, it was awesome. I checked their website, hey they have a craft beer collection as well! When more regional breweries like this one start it, the average consumer will get aware of it as well because it reaches their Supermarkt, Getränkemarkt, etc. and they recognize their regional and beloved brand. But, the regional will only do what the nationals do. Thus, Braufactum and Bitburger activity in this segment is fine for me.

 

Will be reporting back on German Craft Beer shortly. Ordered some stuff at Bierzwerg (Crew Ale, Ale Project, Propeller, Riedenburger, Schönramer), expecting it this week.

 

Bierzwerg is so good. Ordered on Tuesday afternoon, delivered Thursday morning!

So, here is one of the few German IPAs. They call it Bavarian India Pale Ale. It comes from Riedenburger, a very interesting brewery in the center of Bavaria, close to Regensburg. I loved all of their other products I tried before. All of their beers, including this IPA, are "bio". The IPA has 55 IBU. Relatively low carbonation, solid foam, colored like a Hefeweizen. Good smell, sweetish like honey in the beginning. Nice, distinctive hops after that.
Here's a link.

 

With most of these German IPA's - are they typically using US "C" hops (Cascade, Columbus, Chinook, etc.) or are they going with European hops like Hallertauer M and Goldings?
Would you say they're emulating US (or English) examples or going for something totally different?

 

Urban Chestnut in St. Louis makes a Bavarian IPA called "Hopfen." Their description is:

A beer we are describing as a ‘Bavarian IPA’. Brewed and dry-hopped with a variety of Hallertau ‘hopfen’… instead of the usual and more citric hop varieties of most American IPA’s… gives this beer a decidedly German twist.


Alcohol by Volume: 6.2%
Hop bitterness (IBU): 55
Color: Gold
OG: 14.2 Plato
Hops: Hallertau Mittelfrueh, Tradition, Merkur
Malts: Pilsner, Munich

 

So… have you had it? and if yes, tell us what it was like? and how it compares to a regular IPA or German style? What malts did they use? Typical German malts like Münchner, Pils malts or typical USA IPA malts, like Pale and Crystal malts?
Or… mail me some, and I'll do the eval for you.

 

Another video I found. The fact that this is on Süddeutsche, one of the country's biggest newspapers, once again shows that something has begun to move. The reporter is at Brauhaus Riegele in Augsburg, they brewed a beer with lychee taste without actually using lychee, explaining the various possibilities of hops. I love how the reporter calls it a Geschmacksbier (beer with taste). Still, everything is about the RHG, they wouldn't dare actually using lychee.

 

To be honest, I haven't tried enough IPAs to be able to judge that. They provide no information on what hops or malts they use, although I might write them and just ask. I thought it wasn't too bitter, rather sweetish with a distinct note of bitterness.

 

The listing says Munich and Pilsner malts. BTW the brewmaster is German born and trained. http://urbanchestnut.com/our-brewmaster

I've had it, but it's been a while. The next time I'm there I'll take some notes. It's more balanced towards the malt than a US IPA and the dry hopping is done with a much lighter hand than US IPA's.

I don't think they bottle it. So, why don't you come here, and I'll buy you a glass.

 

Why would you add actual lychee if you can get that character from the hops? Would you dump a Hershey's Kiss into a cup of the world's finest coffee that boasts hints of chocolate as part of its flavor profile? Would you throw a bunch of roasted chestnuts on top of a piece of roast pork that has hints of nuttiness in the meat from the pigs feeding on the nuts of a chestnut tree? I just don't get this philosophy that if a little is good, then more must be better. You're not creating "complexity" with such things, you're simply being heavy-handed.

 

I thinks it's hilarious that the reporter keeps calling it Geschmacksbier, maybe to differentiate from WITHOUT taste, eh? That subtle dig was funny. In addition, the reporter shows a typical German's ignorance of both what makes good beer and that there was anything outside the typical German styles. He asks "how does the lychee taste get in the beer?" Then the brewer answers "From the hops," to which the reporter asks the even more silly question, "how do the flavors get in the hops?"

This goes to show how hard a time Germans are having in thinking up a term to describe beer that's not Fernsehbiere or Einheitsbiere. The term craftbeer would've been to difficult for the reporter to explain to the average Josef-6-pack, and Handwerkbier would've been equally strange because the brewer already produces this in the regular line-up. I think there's still room for a new term needed in German to describe beer that's neither Fernsehbiere nor Einheitsbiere.