German craft beer

Discussion in 'Germany' started by einhorn, Dec 20, 2012.

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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I had a chance to drink Wolters Pilsener at an Oktoberfest beer festival last fall. I enjoyed drinking that beer. To use a Tony (@boddhitree) term, that beer was süffig to my palate. Nothing too exciting but I found it to be pleasantly drinkable. There was a perceptible sulfur aroma that I would suspect that most folks would describe as being skunky but the aroma reminded me of a struck match so it is my guess that there is some sulfur dioxide (SO2) in that beer.

    I have not encountered Wolters Pilsener since that festival but if I see it on tap I would order a pint.

    Cheers!
     
  2. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    While the bigger/badder/faster/more thing dictates craft beer in the US, one other problem is that there is a huge bandwagon mentality. Look no further than the explosion of various beers ending in "IPA" that simply contain more hops than normal. Everyone and their mom will brew one and then discontinue it in 18 months because the craft community has grown bored and moved on. In most cases these trends aren't even something newly discovered, but are more often than not just a reaction to a new name for existing techniques.
    Some are good, some are bad, but quality isn't even the biggest issue. We're blowing through styles and neglecting classically good beers in favor of something people will roll their eyes at next year. I don't want breweries killing off their ambers, blondes, stouts, and APAs in favor of a short-term trend.
    In the case of Germany, I suppose that's magnified with hundreds of years of brewing history on the line.
     
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  3. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Don't get me wrong @Domingo I see this every day. Incessant tail chasing, flavor-of-the-week, insatiable what-have-you-done-for-me-lately type of buyer is so unpredictable, it's just crazy. The "session IPA" thing is exceptionally stupid, but seems to have found a niche maybe simply due to "buzz" about this new/old category.

    Again, unfortunate but true, many of my customers are replacing shelf space with US craft and removing many German, English and imported beers. It's the trend, and I can hardly blame them. Maybe down the road, as the market calms down, many new beer fans will head back to some of the ultimate "session beers", my favorite being a banana-y hefeweizen.
     
  4. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    I think generally you're right, but weren't those first-time-increasing-figures for 2013? When winter lasted way into April and summer was rather cool and wet?
     
  5. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Interesting blog entry from Bier des Tages about Alt-Bamberg Pils. The author grapples with the notion of "authentic" craft beer vs. big brewers (in this case, Kaiserdom) that are increasingly adopting the name for marketing purposes. Then he gets to the crux of the matter: the beer...is it any good? It's dry hopped, yes, but is it also intended to appeal to more of a mass audience/consumer base? Does this matter? And what about that price? 11.99 Euro (around US$16) for a case!. Lots of food for thought in this one. Would love to hear y'all's thoughts, too.

    http://bierdestages.de/braumanufactur-alt-bamberg-kaiserdom-pils-nr-1259/
     
    #705 herrburgess, May 8, 2014
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  6. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    Interesting that he says that the beer is lacking in bitterness, whereas he seems pleased with the hop flavors and aromas produced by the dry-hopping. It reminds me of a pilsner which Carlsberg Sweden brewed a few years back which used Saphir hops. The hop aroma and flavor was there (albeit mild), but the bitterness was so soft to the point where the beer seemed incomplete. I expected the hop flavors to be matched by the bitterness, similar to an APA. I'm guessing the IBUs had to have been slightly higher than the 23IBUs of their regular lager beers, maybe approaching a regular German pilsner, with a slightly lower wort strenght than a standard Swedish export beer. But it seemed like the bitterness was overwhelmed by the hop flavors, and that they needed to up the bitterness a bit to achieve a better balance of flavors.

    According to the website for alt-Bamberg the wort strenght of the beer is "around 11.5%", abv is 4.9% and IBUs are 27. On paper that sounds like it should be a balanced beer, but I'm wondering if the dry-hopping alters that equation to where the IBUs aren't enough.
     
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  7. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

    Interesting article. The author seems to think that they are trying to "fudge" their way into the craft-beer scene with a already-brewed beer which is simply dry hopped. Which kind of makes sense when you think about a normal pilsner recipe: 97% pilsner malt and maybe 3% Munich - basta. Not a lot of room for changing things up unless you increase Plato/OG, which @Crusader has found is not the case.
     
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  8. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    I enjoy reading that blog from time to time. His views are often much more balanced than that of some craft-nerds.
    As for that beer...I'm getting a little sick of that ever-present "Citrus-Note"! I don't think a "Citrus-Note" fits a Pilsner very well. If you wanna dry-hop a Pilsner, go for earthy, herbal or maybe floral notes, but definitely not citrus!
     
  9. boddhitree

    boddhitree Pooh-Bah (1,839) Apr 13, 2008 Germany
    Pooh-Bah

    Dropped by Braustil again today to try their Maibock. I tried to get the ABV but they had only hired help working and he didn't know. I'm guessing it was 6.5%.
    [​IMG]
    Aroma: pils malt, bready, a little citrus, too.
    Taste: in the front: spritzy, a slight alcohol taste, yeasty, too. Pils malt with not much bitterness.
    Middle: bready, some Pils malt toasty
    Back: some citrus, a little bitterness, more pils malt with a shot of caramel from Münchner malt, and definately yeasty.
    Aftertaste, you're left with a bready, dry finish with a yeast flavor lingering.
    Overall: a very süffiges beer. It tastes much like a strong Helles with a breadier flavor going into a caramel Märzen. It tastes extremely fresh and the yeast imparts a wonderful blanket under which all the other flavor mingle.
     
  10. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    On the other hand, they did use German hop varieties to give it that flavor (Tettnanger and Spalter Select). I'm wondering if the same flavor notes would be generated by a late boil addition, or if it's the dry-hopping which brings out these citrus notes from these particular hops (perhaps generated by the presence of volatile compounds like limonene etc.).

    Some of the Swedish macro lager beers have citrus notes to them, even though the brewery says they use German aroma hops and don't dry-hop. So I'm wondering if it's possible to generate those flavors even with a late boil hop addition using German hops (aside from the newer hop varietals which are specifically bred to showcase these flavor notes).
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Patrik, I have generously late hopped (including dry hopping) several of my homebrewed beers with Noble hops (i.e., Saaz, Hallertauer Mittelfruh) and I personally have never perceived any citrus notes. These beers tasted herbal/spicy/floral to my palate.

    Victory produces a series of Braumeister Pilsner beers where a certain hop is featured and they generously late hop those beers. I have had the Saaz, Tettnanger, Hallertauer Mittelfruh and Sladek versions and I have never perceived citrus in any of the beers.

    Sly Fox produces a rotating beer called Standard Pils which is unfiltered and generously late hopped with Spalter Select hops. I have had this beer many times and I have never perceived citrus notes in that beer.

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
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  12. danfue

    danfue Initiate (0) Sep 16, 2012 Germany

    I can't really imagine citrus aromas with Tettnanger and Select. I suspect, they just call it like that because it's hip to promote your beer with a "Citrus-Note".
     
  13. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,252) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    There's a really small brewery in Denver called Wit's End that uses Tettnanger hops in most of their beers. It's kind of an odd choice, but the brewer loves that kind. He's done a late addition pale ale and even a SMaSH using only two-row malt and Tettnanger hops. While certainly not the kind of fruit notes you'd get from Citra or Nelson Sauvin, it think they give off just a bit of orange and lemon.
     
  14. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,242) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Is this a function of consumer's desiring low-hop beers, or their tap handles being more prevalant than the smaller guys?

    For example, Boston Lager/Sierra Nevada Pale Ale run neck and neck as the top selling individual craft beers (excluding seasonals). But honestly, how many people actually leave a liquor store with 12 packs of Boston Lager? I'd like to see the individual numbers between draft and bottle sales, but I would guess a beer like Boston Lager outsells other beers because their drafts can be found in almost ANY bar/airport/chain restaurant.

    The bottom line though......IPAs are the best selling craft style, and that trend isn't showing signs of slowing.

    You mentioned earlier in the thread that you tried brewing low-hop "boring" styles such as pilsners, Helles, doppelbocks...etc. with little success. I get it, you need to gain interest in your operation (and money!) before you can become "adventurous" (sad that something like a Helles is considered risky today in craft). But at one time Boston Lager, Anchor Steam, and Sierra Nevada Pale Ale were something the general Budweiser-chugging public did not want. With the right marketing, and a well-crafted beer, I believe anything can sell. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but if you create a world class pilsner and know how to pitch it, it will sell.
     
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  15. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    @einhorn, it looks like you may have some competition... :wink:

    (New contract brewed beer in Bamberg, based on an old recipe from a defunct brewery in the Sandstrasse, right next door to a place I sublet for a couple of months)

    http://www.ahoernla.de/historie/

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Bierman9

    Bierman9 Grand Pooh-Bah (5,313) Dec 20, 2001 New Hampshire
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Hmmmmm.... may have to check that place out come SEPT....

    Prosit!!
     
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  17. WhatANicePub

    WhatANicePub Zealot (712) Jul 1, 2009 Scotland

    It says the house beer is top-fermenting, which seems unusual for Franconia.
     
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  18. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (1,175) Nov 3, 2005 California

     
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  19. john_snow

    john_snow Initiate (0) May 23, 2014 Germany

    I am a reseller from Germany and i would like to import the Game of Thrones Craft beer. I already contacted DuvelUSA but the Export-Manager ment that they dont export to Germany. Have you got any idea if there is another uncomplicated way? Or do i have to buy the beer in the US by myself and ship/fly it to Germany? That would make it more or less impossible for me at the moment, cause i am still at university...so time and money for traveling is short.

    I would be glad to find someone who whats to help me.
     
  20. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    But not unusual for a brewery just starting up. They may not have the space or equipment for proper lagering -- or time, if they want to get a foothold in the market. Sort of like home-brewers, micros, and brew-pubs.
     
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