German Schwarzbier

Doug doesn't always brew entirely to style, so it's quite possible it's not a TRUE schwarzbier.

I'm in Chicagoland, and have seen it there, but it's never in the liquor stores or bars I'm in/near, seemingly. Admittedly I haven't been able to go out of my way to find it; happy to know it's still out there.

 

I'm patiently waiting for this one to show up in my distro area.

 

The only thing I can think of is that it would release some of the sulfur that would otherwise get absorbed back into the beer during closed fermentation. Then again, a small amount of sulfur in a lager isn't always a bad thing. I'm certainly no professional brewer though, so hopefully one of them will chime in.

 

Open fermentation, not the maturation/lagering.

I have been in German breweries that open ferment. The beer is lagered in horizontal tanks, usually.

 

I ran the Rate Beer table thriugh the filter for Bavaria and this is what turned up (bold are favorites of mine):

1 Gänstaller Bräu Black GOOSEtaller 10 6.70% 3.47
2 Kulmbacher Mönchshof Schwarzbier 893 4.90% 3.43
3 Klosterbräu Schwärzla 179 4.90% 3.38
4 Altstadthof Schwarzbier 73 4.80% 3.35
30 Schanzenbräu Schwarz 17 - 3.10

The Schanzenbräu was right up there in my top tier, but not the crowd's... maybe the small sample size

I also like the Uinta Baba an awful lot and the Duck Rabbit just a notch below.
and the Outer Banks Brewing Station

 

Herold Black Lager was probably the first one I had years and years ago and few have come close to matching it.

 

Did you read my exchanges with AlcahueteJ (posts #112, 114 and 115)?

In post 115 I stated: “Thanks for that input. The only potential difference that I could see for open fermentation when producing a lager is that this would permit increased release of sulfur compounds from the fermenting beer.”

AlcahueteJ previously stated there was no difference in sulfur compounds of the Kellerbier series lagers and the ‘regular’ lagers.

Cheers!

P.S. I do not get paid to brew beer but I have been brewing lagers for 20+ years.

 

I somehow missed that. Serves me right for posting on BA while trying to write a report at work!

 

Many lager yeasts aren't completely devoid of the ability to produce esters, it's just that it's temperature dependent, plus whatever minor amount of esters are there can be cleaned up during the lagering phase. Add to that how one benefit of open fermentation is a more expressive yeast profile and it's not out of the realm of possibility that these beers can be slightly fruity.

 

I personally would not say "many" but there are indeed some lager yeast strains if fermented warm could produce some perceptible esters at the end of fermentation.

Cheers!

 

@AlcahueteJ

There are not major differences between a traditional open lager fermentation and modern closed fermentation. A closed fermentation in a conical tank helps create convection currents during fermentation that keep yeast in suspension which enable a more consistent fermentation and the creation of fewer yeast by-products. On the other hand, open fermentation allows the expulsion of some by-products such as sulfur which are contained in a closed tank. In the end, these difference are very minor and should not lead to large flavor differences. The main reason we use open fermentation for some of our kellerbiers is that we enjoy studying old methods and it is a fun experiment. There is also value in learning how old breweries worked around the limitations of their equipment to do things that we take for granted today,

 

Open or closed, fermenter geometry will certainly impact the flavor of any beer, lager or ale. The very finest lagers I have tasted were fermented in shallow fermenters and certainly, the health of yeast that has been harvested from the top of a fermenter will be higher than yeast that have gone through an entire fermentation and then pushed out the bottom of a CC tank.

This all being said, from utilizing the very finest malt and hops and having a decoction brewhouse to utilizing a floatation tank, fermenting colder in a shallow fermenter, harvesting from the top of the fermenter, transferring to a secondary fermenter with several more points of attenuation to go, spunding, cooling slowly and then lagering for 10 weeks... the differences between the production of world-class lagers found in Bavaria and the Czech Republic and the perfectly lovely lagers being produced in "the rest" of breweries throughout Germany and the US are vast. Most of us are doing the best we can with what we have to work with and that will get you 98% of the way there. It's that last 2% that is awfully hard for 99% of drinkers to distinguish and damn near impossible for many of us to accomplish without building the entire facility around the production of such beers.

 

Well-said. I somewhat suspected that the typical upright aluminum or stainless-steel fermenter tanks were never quite suited to brewing a quality lager to the exact standards German and Czech originals are made at. I wonder how many (presumably lager-centric breweries) in the US have invested in a shallow-tank setup over the more conventional designs built by brewery supply companies.

 

For some? Do you not use open fermentation for all of the beers in your Kellerbier series?

Also, do you use open fermentation for Springdale's 'Das Weizen? That's an excellent beer...I hope we see it again this year.

 

I very much suspected that would be the case. Thank you for taking to time to respond.

While I have never had the opportunity to try your Kellerbier series of lagers (I have never seen them in my beer retailers in SEPA) I have enjoyed drinking your 'regular' lagers that are distributed down here (e.g., Post Shift).

Cheers!

 

Our kellerbiers are almost always open fermented, though occasionally when we brew new varieties the pilots are closed fermented. Anything you see out for distro is open fermented. For our smaller scale batches and pilots we are in the process of installing two wood open fermenters that we made by cutting open some old foeders.

Das Weizen is open fermented and it currently in a tank. It should be available by the end of the month.

 

Jeff, firstly let me say thank you for taking the time to reply here.

I suppose we all could select what we think are part of the "2%". I personally have high opinions of the lager produced by Ayinger brewery and to the best of my knowledge they ferment in CCV tanks. Another German brewery that I respect is
Weihenstephaner which I also understand utilize CCV tanks. Do I have a misunderstanding of these two breweries?

Cheers!

@JacksAbbyBrewing

 

Will those wood fermenters be lined with pitch or will the fermenting beer be exposed to the wood. How will you sanitize these vessels?

Cheers!

 

We will be experimenting with pitch but there will also be sine direct wood contact. As to sanitizing, we will do our best to keep them clean but the short answer is that they will not be fully sanitized. These vessels are for our new pilot system so it will be small batch brewery only beers. We will be trying a lot of different things with them.

 

Another thing open fermentation of lagers allows is for the Braunhefe to be skimmed off and discarded. That gives a beer that has more refined taste, according to a tour at Schönram in Germany. The guide was an old Brewer, and he referenced a study at the brewing school at Weihenstephaner.