Goodbelly Question

I use one of the 2.7 fl oz. Goodbelly BigShots in 3 gallons of wort and it has taken about 48hrs to get down to about 3.3 pH.
I have done this twice with very similar time to pH results with the purged kettle in my garage during the summer at about 85-90.
I also pre-acidified the wort to around 5 pH before pitching the Goodbelly.

 

Personally, I utilized a full 32 oz carton in the last 5 gallon batch I did. I don't believe the entire carton is necessary, as I've seen reports of 12 oz in 3 gallon batches. Temperature wise, pitch around 90 and let it free fall to room temperature. There's no need to hold it at higher temps, it will sour regardless (as long as there are no hops).

 

I've used GoodBelly a handful of times, both the carton as well as the shots. I pitch it around 95-100 degrees, then move the container to the garage, which is usually around 80-85. I use half a carton (16 oz) or two shots for a 1-1.5 gallon batch, pre-acidified to 4.2-4.5 pH, and it drops to around 3.2 or so in 48 hours.

If I keep the bucket in the house (77F), it doesn't really seem to do anything. In the garage, it is very active, constantly bubbling away.

 

I have done it 3 times, and I'm working on my 4th right now. I used 3 of the shots for 72hrs in my Coleman cooler mash tun and a carboy with a heating pad around 90F each time and had significant sourness(no PH meter). Now I have a carboy in my 80F garage with a full carton that I'm also going to give 72hrs. My new grocery store sells them for only $2.50 per carton, can't find the shots here.

 

I've used it once, and really liked the results - 6oz Mango Goodbelly in a 2.25g sour IPA.

I mashed 1.5 pounds of grain, did a short boil, cooled wort to about 115 and added the Goodbelly. Held the wort at about 90 for 72 hours before returning to standard batch process - boil, DME, & hops (I brew partial extract). Great tangy flavor.

 

I have had good results using one SuperShot in 5 gallons of wort. I pitch a little under 100°F and let it sit for about day (I'm not too meticulous about timing) before pitching the yeast. When using kveik, I insulate the carboy to hold it as close to 100°F as possible (it probably loses 5-10 degrees, I don't know), and when using a saison yeast I just let it cool down to room temperature without insulation. Either way it sours up nicely.

A couple of suggestions. First, I wouldn't use any hops at all. Once I tried to brew a gose with GoodBelly and I used a modest amount of hops (maybe 5 calculated IBUs). It didn't get sour at all. I think the GoodBelly lacto bugs are even more hop-sensitive than the varieties available from the major yeast vendors (for instance, I have brewed a gose with Wyeast's Lacto Delbrueckii and it soured fine even though there were a few IBUs). [Update: On re-reading your post, I see that you are sour-worting. In that case, obviously you can use all the hops you want in the boil.]

Second, maybe this goes without saying, but I would use the freshest package of GoodBelly you can find. A SuperShot (if you can get one) is such a small volume that I wouldn't worry about what flavor it is. Just use the freshest one available. I have generally found that Whole Foods keeps a good supply of fresh GoodBelly products, if there is one near you.

 

I use one carton of Good Belly Mango per 5 gallons of wort. Like others, I too cool to just under 100*F, add the entire contents of the carton, and let it free fall for a couple days. I usually pre-acidify my wort to 4.0 pH with Citric Acid and hit 3.4 with in a couple days. Never use hops with GB unless you are going to do a full boil after acidifying, then add the hops during the second boil. I have just been doing no boil, pitch the GB, let it drop to room temp and 3.3-3.6 and then pitch my yeast.

 

Never done it myself, but there's some excellent information on it here.

 

I use probiotics in capsule form. Not sure of the exact brand, but they contain half a dozen lacto cultures as well as some harmless non-lacto ones. I use a lot. Something like 20 billion cultures/gallon or 2 tablets/gallon. Way more than the yeast labs recommend with their pitches. But it’s cheap, and it works, and I’m pretty sure you can’t overpitch. I just make a slurry, add at 120° and let is slowly cool and sour. I monitor the PH and heat it when I get to where I want it. Usually 16 hours or so.
I’ve also seen good results with using oikos(sp?) no fat Greek yogurt. Two big jars for souring a 15bbl batch overnight, so maybe a little to-go cup for a homebrew batch.
In my experience, lacto seems to degrade and become less effective quickly, so fresher and more is probably best.

 

1/2 carton of Mango pitched into roughly 6.5-7 gallons of preacidified 4.5 PH wort kept at 95ish (between 90 and 97) will get you 3.5 ph in 16ish hours in my experience. The lacto in Good Belly is the fastest souring but does it’s best work between 90 and 100 I believe.

 

So everybody pre-sours wort, then pitches lacto, then sacc (maybe brett)? Why not just pre-sour to where you want it, then interesting sacc+brett? I must be missing something.

 

I do not pre-sour my wort, but if I had to guess, I would say people are pre-souring for two reasons. First, to prevent unwanted bacteria from spoiling the wort. Second, because apparently some of the protein-degrading enzymes that lacto makes are less of a problem when the pH is already low. Sour beer generally has bad head formation/retention, but I guess people want some.

If your question is, why not just add lactic acid, my own personal answer is that I believe the bugs will give my beer more complexity, and even if lacto bugs don't, really, I feel better about brewing with them than I would simply dosing my wort with lactic acid. You can call it sentimentalism if you want but to me it feels better to do things the old-fashioned way sometimes.

 

This is all I wanted to read. Good shit. America and all that.

 

^^^ These things

As long as your sanitation procedures are on-point, there's no reason to pre-acidify, unless you're looking for good head-retention, that is.

 

Cool that you got that off of one shot!

 

little late to the game here, but figured id chime in with how I handle souring with goodbelly (since you guys have always been awesome helping me)

Simple batch sparge mash 50/50 wheat malt pilsner malt.
bring wort up to boil for ~5 minutes (the necessity of this step is debatable) (no hops!)
cool to ~100
add lactic acid (5ml per 5ish gallons)
add about half to 2/3 of a bottle of goodbelly
clear head space of kettle with CO2, cover with lid, wrap with saran rap (this last step is an attempt at making it air tight, I probably don't do a very good job of this)

put kettle in large bucket with water, use sous vide wand to maintain water at 95 degrees for 2 days.. gives a nice tartness - may bump this to 2.5 days next time

boil with minimal hop addition at 60 and 30 minutes (.5 ounce each time)

ferment with US-05 so far

then I have tried a ton of different fruit and dry hop combinations in secondary.

Ive been extremely happy with results so far

good luck!

 

Lactobacillus sp. (and most other LABs, for that matter) grow VERY quickly, especially at a temperature near that of the human body. That includes Pediococcus sp., which, for some reason, people think grow slowly, when they grow just as fast as lacto does.

 

Do you have a PH meter... 2.5 days of Goodbelly at 95 would probably bring your PH down really low... I got mine to 3.5 in like 18 hours. I would think 2.5 days would be down to close to 3.1 which would probably make something a little more than tart... I bought a T/A kit for the next time I do a kettle sour just to see what the acidity looks like at different PHs.

I’ve only ever used Plantarum. I know the other strains require different temps, maybe longer times, and don’t seem to get quite as low but do they provide a different profile that people might like better? Or is lactic acidity, lactic acidity regardless.