Got the empty CO2 tank blues

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by MCBanjoMike, Mar 6, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Page 2 of 2
  1. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    Could you please provide a link to the site where you buy your orings.. I have been spending 30 cents a peice at the LHBS.

    I use pinlock, although they should be interchangeable, id assume.

    Thanks
     
    #21 jmich24, Mar 8, 2015
  2. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    #22 mikehartigan, Mar 8, 2015
  3. rocdoc1

    rocdoc1 Savant (1,215) Jan 13, 2006 New Mexico

    I use the same o-ring for my pinlock and ball lock.
     
    #23 rocdoc1, Mar 8, 2015
  4. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    #24 PortLargo, Mar 8, 2015
    wspscott and ChrisMyhre like this.
  5. rocdoc1

    rocdoc1 Savant (1,215) Jan 13, 2006 New Mexico

    I started using red ones for the gas post, black for beer especially on the ball lock kegs so I don't get confused and force the wrong connector onto the post.
     
    #25 rocdoc1, Mar 8, 2015
  6. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    A month or so ago I did some in-depth research into the question of which o-rings are correct for pin-lock kegs. This is what I found out.

    The dip-tube o-rings for ball lock and pin lock are apparently the same. The ideal post o-rings are not the same, at least not for the pin-lock posts that I have.

    The standard o-ring for a ball-lock post is a 2-111: 0.424" ID, 0.630" ID. This o-ring is slightly too small for a pin-lock post. It will seal if there is no lateral stress on the quick disconnect, but I find that this o-ring will leak if the quick disconnect is tilted to the side a little bit.

    The ideal o-ring for a pin-lock post has at least two designations: 5-615, BS 614 (BS = British Standard). It has the following dimensions: 0.469" ID, 0.675". McMaster Carr does not carry these, but I found them at Orings and More for 11c/piece (Note, O-rings and More lists them as a metric o-ring, but the metric sizes are just converted British (i.e., US) units. Chi Company also sells these, it appears.

    A standard 2-112 (0.487" ID, 0.693" OD) will work in a pinch for pin-lock, but the quick disconnect is tighter than it should be and is thus a bit of a struggle to connect/disconnect. There is a monster thread at HBT that goes into mucho detail about all of this; there is some discussion regarding which metric o-ring will suffice. From that discussion the best metric replacement seems to be the 10 mm ID, 16 mm OD (0.393" ID, 0.630" OD) o-ring. It's a tight fit but the amount of compression is apparently about right.

    Not all home-brew suppliers know what is what with regards to pin lock o-rings. Before investigating the subject, I had ordered "pin-lock" o-rings and previously received either the 2-111 or the correct 5-615. I may have even received some 2-112s (I'm not sure about this, the 2-112s may have already been on some used kegs I bought).

    As the for dip-tube rings, I recently bought the "quad" cross section rings, size 109. From what I read they are supposed to make a better seal. I just installed some, so we'll see. They are available at McMaster Carr and at Orings and More.

    Cheers!
     
    #26 utahbeerdude, Mar 8, 2015
    jmich24 likes this.
  7. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    Purchased! Thanks a ton. Very much appreciated!
     
    #27 jmich24, Mar 9, 2015
  8. MCBanjoMike

    MCBanjoMike Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2014 Canada (QC)

    Today I learned that you shouldn't hook a gas line at 40 PSI up to a Corny keg while a picnic tap is attached to it. 15 minutes later, I had cleaned the keg fridge (and the washing machine and the floor...) and was able to look for my leak. I think I may have found it, emphasis on the may. Nothing jumped out at me at first, no hissing or bubbling, except when I bumped the gas in post, which caused a brief hiss every time I moved it. I figured that was normal, just the disconnect unseating itself, but eventually I realized there was a leak at the MFL fitting on my gas line. Tightened it up and then I couldn't force a leak no matter how much I played with the disconnect. I had a good long listen at the lid, including relief valve, and I didn't hear any leaks even after covering it with Star San, so hopefully it's well-seated. I'm now pressure-testing the keg at 40 PSI (with the gas shut oiff) - I'll give it a few hours and see if it can maintain that level. Thanks for the suggestions, everyone, with a little luck I'll be back in draft beer in a few days.
     
    #28 MCBanjoMike, Mar 14, 2015
    ChrisMyhre likes this.
  9. MCBanjoMike

    MCBanjoMike Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2014 Canada (QC)

    So I opened the valve up after about 16 hours and the pressure in the keg had dropped from 40 to around 36. But the keg is also full of lightly-carbed beer, so is it possible that the gas is just entering suspension? Can you even do this test with a filled keg? I'm anxious to get back to serving pressure and have a pint, but I don't want to waste another tank of CO2.
     
    #29 MCBanjoMike, Mar 15, 2015
  10. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, the beer absorbed the gas. Do your test on an empty tank or if an empty is not available pull your gas QD and repeat at 40psi (this will test everything but the QD connection) . . . try an leave at least overnight. The other variable is temp, as long as it doesn't change the pressure should be steady.

    If you get the shakes the keg will still pour with residual headspace pressure . . . will even help in adjusting the carb level in the (now) over-carbed beer.
     
    #30 PortLargo, Mar 15, 2015
  11. MCBanjoMike

    MCBanjoMike Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2014 Canada (QC)

    Unfortunately, this is my only keg, and it's about 4 gallons full of decent beer that I don't want to lose. So when you say "pull the gas DQ and repeat", at that point I'm just making sure there isn't a leak anywhere in the tank-regulator-gas line part of the system? Cause I would think pressurizing the keg before disconnecting would just give me the same result I saw here, gas getting absorbed into the beer.

    Temperature is stable in the fridge, so that's not an issue. And is the beer really overcarbed at this point? I left it overnight at high pressure, but the regulator was cut off, so it wasn't feeding new gas into the keg.
     
    #31 MCBanjoMike, Mar 15, 2015
  12. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    First, your beer is safe . . . probably overcarbed but that's easy to correct. If the pressure in the headspace went from 40 to 36 psi with the tank master valve turned off then the beer is the recipient of that gas and/or you still have a leak. Pour some and give it a hard swish in your mouth, pretty sure it will off-gas (tingle) more than normal. With the gas disconnected, vent the headspace and the excess gas in the beer will equalize (may take several hours). Some trail and error involved, just taste as you go along . . . as long as you keep air away the beer is happy. If you bleed too much CO2 it's a simple process to re-carb to the proper level.

    Yes, disconnect the QD from the tank, set 40+ psi, shut-off master valve and wait 12 - 24 hours. This will test every connection/fitting except the QD/gas-post connection. The temp is for the tank/lines. If inside the kegerator then temp will be constant, but if outside it can be affected. When I jump in the ocean with a scuba tank I lose 100 psi immediately. Same number of gas molecules hang around, they just become less excited and the gauge reflects that. When checking for leaks you want to eliminate pressure swings due to temp changes. This will be intuitive as the seasons change if you keep your tank outside the kegerator.

    It sounds like you are already there, this is the final exam. Your keg will pour nicely with the gas disconnected (for a day or so).
     
    #32 PortLargo, Mar 16, 2015
    ChrisMyhre likes this.
  13. MCBanjoMike

    MCBanjoMike Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2014 Canada (QC)

    All right, I tried Largo's suggestion last night, pressurizing the (disconnected) gas line to 40 PSI and shutting the gas off at the tank, rather than at the regulator. I was a bit discouraged at first, because the pressure dropped to 36 within a few hours, but when I woke up this morning it was still at 36. I'll leave it until tonight to be sure, but I'm hopeful that things have stabilized and that I'm not losing any more gas.

    Throughout all of this, I've still been drinking the beer, and it has been quite nice! It's a low-carb style, so even when it gets extra foamy after a pressure test it's still totally drinkable. As much of a pain as it is to try to find this leak, at least I have access to my beer again.
     
    #33 MCBanjoMike, Mar 17, 2015
    PortLargo likes this.
  14. Picit13

    Picit13 Initiate (0) Dec 30, 2014 Indiana

    Happened to me too this weekend, wasn't sure which way valves opened and of course had them wide opened and boom
     
    #34 Picit13, Mar 18, 2015
Page 2 of 2
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.