My BrewCipher spreadsheet uses fementability for various grains' contribution to the wort based on Greg Doss' work. He compared the following grains... Pils Munich 10 Wheat C-120 C-40 Carapils Oats Chocolate Roasted Barley So there is good data for those grains. For other grains, I copy/extrapolate/guesstimate from those 9 grains. And while my results seem to be in close agreement with batches I have brewed (I ran old combined grists and attenuation results through the new model), I'd feel better with discrete data. If anyone has (or knows) of any fermentability data for any grains other than those listed above, particularly if expressed in comparison to one of those above (most likley pils), I'd be much obliged if you could point me to it. TIA!
Not sure if fermentabililty and extract-FG are the same thing, but if they are, check out Briess.com. Here's the data sheet for their 2-row base malt. Similar data for all their malts, and I suspect other maltsters may provide similar data (but I haven't looked). http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_2RowBrewersMalt.pdf
Thanks. Alas, FG in this case is 'Fine Grind' and has to do with potential yield (extraction) rather than how attenuable the extracted stuff is.
Yes. But the grain type is also a factor. That's why it would be better if the data were in comparison to some other known grain (one from Greg's 9 grains above) that was mashed the same way. (Not necessarily mashed the same way as in Greg's trials...but mashed the same way in the comparison.) What I want to do is to derive factors from the new data, and then apply those factors to Greg's results to get a baseline 'basic attenuability' for the new grains.
Isn't there manufacturer's data on every grain type? And if so, can you extrapolate from those results?
i make a beer using 14% victory. pretty sure this behaves more like munich, ie 72% fermentability. i also think your rye % is correct, at around 72%.
Funny you should mention it... just this morning I changed the Victory factor to 70% (in version 1.6 that I am working on). I actually changed several grains, based on a color-based formula I derived for kilned/toasted/slightly roasted grains, using an exponential function with Greg's data for three known grains. Color is serving as a proxy for degree of toast/roast. It's good to know that at least one of the changes seems to be consistent with your experience.
would love to see your fit. this would imply a differing amount of fermentability for different crystal malts though right? thus far, my data indicates they all seem to behave similarly in terms of fermentability.
I'm not applying the formula to crystal malts, which are made by a very different process. The interesting thing about crystal malts is that based on Greg's data, C120 was significantly more attenuable than C40. This is counterintuitive (to me anyway), so I recently sent him a question. I'd like to know if he believes this is random noise, or something significant.
Mick, what you want to know is how fermentable a malt is regarding the sugars produced at a given mash time-temperature?
What I'm looking for is fermentability of a given grain relative to the fermentability of any of the known grains from Greg Doss' study. With Mash Time, Mash Temp, and Yeast Strain as constants.
the only problem I see is that it's a sliding scale based on yeast choice. How fuller's strain can deal with 60L crystal seems to be completely different than how dupont's strain deals with 60L crystal. I've done similar grain bills with similar mash temps with anchor yeast strain that left the beer at 1012, westmalle strain left the beer at 1005 and french saison leave it at .998 since it seems to devour dextrins as well. These weren't exact grain bill and mash profiles, but pretty damn close. I can tell you that has nothing to do with flocc'ing as the literature from a decade ago might tell you...
That's something that was in the back of my mind too. Yeast can have a pretty big range. Dare I ask how your model accounts for this? Edit: Also, do you assume that each years crop will be consistent?
There are separate factors for Yeast Strain, Grains, Mash Temp, and Mash Length. It's vey similar to the approach proposed by Greg Doss in his presentaion at the 2012 NHC. (Though some of the data I'm using are not from his presentation.) It's on the AHA web site and it's good reading for AHA members. Yes. There's no other practical assumption.
