Growing yeast starters in the lab

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by corbmoster, Apr 24, 2015.

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  1. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    I'm a biology major at SHSU, and I do research in a lab. Therefore, I have access to shaker incubators, autoclave, centrifuge, etc.. Would there be any harm in using a shaker incubator to grow up a yeast starter (24 hrs), then centrifuge the cells down into a pellet and pour off the supernatent liquid? It would be faster, but would that stress the cells, or have bad consequences?
     
  2. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    What????? I would say you are the research expert, so do it and you report back your findings.
     
  3. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    I haven't had a baseline of good homebrews to compare results against.
     
  4. Hanglow

    Hanglow Pooh-Bah (2,051) Feb 18, 2012 Scotland
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeast can suffer from cell shear stress from mechanical action, so maybe the centrifuge might be overkill? Just chill it or pitch the whole thing at high krausen

    Or run a load of tests and report back :grinning:
     
  5. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    if I brew a couple good batches, this just might be my next experiment. It's really the centrifuge I'd be worried about. I'd have to vortex it to re-suspend it too. Hmm... Ya, after I get some decent batches going I might try it.
     
  6. Mag00n

    Mag00n Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2008 New York

  7. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    I'm curious about @VikeMan 's opinion. He seems to be very knowledgeable about many of the technical aspects of brewing. What say you sir? Do you think centrifuging yeast into a pellet and re-suspending them by vortex would be too much stress and counter productive and not worthy of the time saver?
     
  8. bluehende

    bluehende Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware

    Certainly shaking your culture with good temperature control is good. If I centrifuged it I would use a low speed and work it more to a slurry than a pellet. You may want to be careful though. I worked in industry and using anything in the lab that would be used for food was a big nono and could have gotten us fired. Academic labs are more lax, but I would be careful.
     
  9. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    I used to do that all the time, works fine. I resuspend in sterile phosphate buffered saline.

    Actually I usually grew the starter at home and took it to the lab to spin down. The shaker incubator will work fine.

    You can do a cell count after resuspending as well so you really know your pitching rate.
    Good luck!

    Edit: I used to take my wyeast activator pack and split it into 4 aliquots, equal to a wyeast propagator.
     
  10. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    we do have a couple spectrophotometers, I didn't even think about getting the optical density to see if I had enough cells. I was just going to use the experimental data fro the starter calculators.
     
  11. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    one of my drinking buddies is a bio medical professor at Cornell. when i discussed building a kit bash stir plate he laughed and related that his lab has dozens, all with temp control. i'll ask him his specific advice next time.

    or, you know, ask your professor. i would think that a stir plate that can maintain about 80F is probably all you really need. no need to make this more complex than it needs to be.
    Cheers.
     
  12. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    Our stir plates do have heat, but they are not specific. It is akin to a stock thermostat on a fridge. It could be done, I would just need to keep checking the temp to make sure it is stable and on target. Shaker incubator would be much easier to work with.
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    (
    I have to say I was taken aback by the shear stress idea. If you think about it, a stir plate might (during 24-ish hours) cause more shear stress than a minute or two in a centrifuge. All I can offer is that yeast on a stir-plate makes more/faster (healthy) yeast than yeast not on a stir plate. So I'm thinking a centrifuge is probably not a yeast killer. But man, I really don't know.
     
  14. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    oh yes, and that's exactly why I ask. I mean, when I need to make a pellet, I use 10,000 RPMs for 4 minutes in the cooled centrifuge. That's just my default. But that is a lot of force. I'm not sure how the yeast would react. Maybe after I get good at brewing I'll do some side by side experiments just to see. For science. And love of beer.
     
  15. NiceFly

    NiceFly Initiate (0) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    The shear stress from a stirplate (or a spinner flasgk for immunobiologist) is not enough to kill them. Yeast are notoriously one of the more difficult cells to rupture due to their protoglycan component of their cell wall.

    RPM and the resulting g force are different for different centrifuges. Been a long time but I think I used 1000x for 15 min.
     
  16. Scumbag81

    Scumbag81 Initiate (0) Sep 10, 2014 California
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    A centrifuge is not a yeast killer, that is a ******ed idea. Yeast cells ate not nearly as fragile as mammalian cells such as CHO or HEK293 celks. During my Ph.D. I'd routinely culture mammalian, yeast or bacterial cells for protein expression, centrifuging below 4,000 x g, will do nothing to the cells. 30,000 x g won't do anything to bacteria or yeast, mammalian cells,not so sure (I''ve only centrifigued them in a vaccum ultra centrifuge at 100,000 x g for membrane preparations after lysis).
     
  17. corbmoster

    corbmoster Pundit (848) Dec 15, 2014 Texas
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    I see that your do live up to your name sake.

    If you had read my post a little more clearly, I wasn't referring so much to cell death. I think most home brewers know that yeast cells can take some punishment and keep on ticking. I was referring more to stress, and how would they react to the stress.
     
  18. Scumbag81

    Scumbag81 Initiate (0) Sep 10, 2014 California
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    I read bad consequences to mean death. I'm sorry my interpretation has upset you. If you are worried about responses to a nebulous statement that assume things then do what you did in your response and explicitly state things;

    If it were me, and I was asking this question, and my university library had solid literature access, I'd try and do a literature search instead. It is sometimes surprisong regarding the breadth of experimental data that exists in the brewing literature, including negative results. As another option, try contacting wyeast or white labs. They obviously have a ton of experience in propagation, and might be able and willing to lend a hand as long as it is not proprietary information, which I really doubt the answer to this question would be.
     
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