Guide to rating places?

Agreed. Ratings should never be on a sliding scale, but a note in the review saying something like "this shop is a true 3, but a 4.5 for the local area" might be helpful.

 

yea and its not my web site of course, and I agree to having hads on beers, but having hads on visits, does not help anyone. rate a place 5 and no review who does that help? you can spot the home town reviews a mile off also.

 

Personally, I feel like a score is more useful if it is provided given the context of the geographic area than it would be if it was given based on some absolute 1-5 scale. The bottle shop I love here in Kansas City might only be a "3" in California or Oregon or Colorado, where great beer is plentiful, but in Kansas City, it is a 5.

The bottom line for me is that geography plays too big a role too many of the factors that go into making a place terrible, bad, average, good or great to ignore it. And if you rate places on an absolute scale, without respect to where they are located, then you aren't considering the fact that the local laws and availability may have made an "absolute" 5 impossible to achieve in that locale.

We are already rating places on a limited scale (i.e., using a 1-5 scale in increments of 0.25 allows for 17 different scoring nodes, whereas if you used a 1-100 scale in increments of 1.0, you would have 100 different scoring nodes), and I fear that rating places on an absolute scale would make it harder to differentiate places in the same geographic area from one another, because places within the same geographic area are going to have similar advantages in terms of availability (for example).

EDIT: I guess my ultimate point is that I don't see how rating a place based on how it compares to the other places in the same geographic area is harmful. But I can see how rating places on an absolute scale is harmful. After all, if people are using these place ratings as a way to figure out where they should go, the are most likely using it for a certain geographical area. It's not likely that someone is going to be directly comparing Bottle Shop A in San Diego and Bottle Shop B in Denver.

 

The problem I have is your using emotional attachment to rate the place. I guess also I am spoiled by being exposed to the worlds best places, well in Europe anyway. I do understand what your saying, but sadly that leads you to many reviews of places that are 5's. I guess I could see that for a small town in the middle of nowhere, but Kansas city?

IF your shop really is the best, then great. Its your review and buy all that. But without standards: why rate? every place is a 5 because its where I live helps no one. I do not like the limited scale of 1 to 5 either. 1 to 20 is how I review places/beer. Still I live with the rules. I rather underrate a place and describe it well then just give it a 5.

I been to many places rated high here and I have been badly disappointed.

 

I agree with this, along with what is available in the area the $$$ rating can vary greatly base on the region. A "$$" place in NYC or LA could easily be a "$$$$" in other parts of the country.

I don't think he is saying he is using emotional attachment, just comparing it to other options in the area.

There's your answer, some "good" place in a small town cannot compare to an amazing beer hall in Belgium, Germany, etc. It's all relative.

 

Well I am most likely just reading into it wrong. Just trying to have a discussion really.
also not everyplace in Europe was a 5. lol

trust me.

well and prices with dollars signs yes a joke. I not sure how to handle that 1. we NOT even gotten into value yet. For us down here, in bars 5 bucks is about average prices for shaker pints of 6% (aprox) and down beer.

I guess for places with less than 100-200 rates, You just have to take them with a grain of salt?

 

Sorry if my post came across as argumentative I certainly didn't mean that, I was just trying to discuss some of the topics you brought up.

I didn't say everyplace in Europe was a 5, just pointing out that you said you've been to many of the best places across the world, and that may be why some places rated here are not up to your standards.

 

NO I was trying to say once you been to the best places, you have a new standard is all. Some were arguing rating to a standard is the only point I was trying to make. Not saying I judge better, or I get disappointed more.

I think about it more and I just do not see how to define it really. its somewhat subjective, in some ways. but You can compare things, like chairs, noise, tv, no tv, list of taps. etc. its why I want to talk about it.

I mean if you got 85 taps, that got to count for something. But if the place is dirty all the time, the service sucks, and the seats are so bad, you feel like your on the rack, the place could suck?? some things are NOT subjective. then again if you love tacky dirty holes in the wall places?

fwiw I think bottle shops should NOT be in places. but in its own category.

 

Emotional attachment is a potential snag for *every* place review. People become emotionally attached to things they experience. Unless you're suggesting that it's inherent that one will inflate a place's score if that place is in their geographical area, which is a suggestion I disagree with.

People's reviews can be influenced by their own personal bias, it's true. But people's reviews are also influenced by their own personal experience (or lackthereof). And I think most people are probably going to lack the kind of broad context you would need to effectively compare a place to every other place (i.e., the absolute scale). You can't eliminate personal bias, but you can adjust expectations to consider the fact that each review can only be as good as the breadth of the reviewer's personal experience. And the likelihood of a reviewer having a broad range of experiences within their own geographical area is much higher than them having the same breadth of experience across the world.

I think I've probably traveled more than your average person. I've been to Europe a couple times, I've been all over the United States and even I don't think I have close to the amount of context I would need to rate a place in Kansas City based on comparing it to every other place in the world. That's essentially what an absolute scale implies--that a 5.0 in Kansas City is equal to a 5.0 in Bend. I just don't think most people (myself included) have enough experience to do that kind of rating. But when it comes to the Kansas City area, I can provide a lot of great context for how local places compare to each other.

I guess my point is that you are welcome to rate however you want, but I think you'll find the scores more useful as an indication of where to go if you consider them as being scored within the context of that area.

Of course, all of this debate is made somewhat obsolete if people would just be descriptive in their reviews. After all, no matter what we agree/disagree on here, each individual is going to be different and for any review to be useful, those individuals need to provide some context for their scores.

 

A well-written review is more helpful than scores in my mind. Having traveled to some beer destinations, I can't tell you how helpful it was to read reviews that specify in the review "This place is okay, but if you like X, then go to location Y". Getting that info from locals is why I look at reviews in the first place.

I'm not interested in how places stack up compared to the best store in the world. I'm looking for specific information in the context of the immediate area.

 

I am sure this is a personal thing to me, but I see allot of reviews for some areas, seem to have inflated values.
Now some of these folks, I know work at these places. many are 1 and done reviews. It would be nice if those that have a conflict of interest could be removed from the mix.

You make a Great argument. But if reviews have to be judged limited by area, why review it?

I sadly do see many places are overrated just because they live there. maybe I am wrong but if your read enough place reviews you see that trend. again I do not know the answer, but yes I am saying emotion makes folks overrate. Plus if they have friends there., you know human nature....

so many post and cross post on social forums, and due to peer pressure you Not going to rag your friends pub are you?

 

Now that (bolded part) is absolutely ridiculous. The site notes that they would prefer that brewers and brewery employees not rate their own beers, and I agree the same should apply to place employees.

My only other question to you would be this: how do you know that the people are overrating places because they live in the geographical area of those places? And even if they are overrating them, as long as they are inflating ALL the local scores, you still have a reasonable way of figuring out which places are worthy of a visit.

Unfortunately, I just don't think we're ever going to get to a place where people are capable of rating on an absolute, worldwide scale.

 

That I know they work there, lol folks talk when drinking.....of course that is just referring to my local area only. .

you not saying you never seen a 1 and done post and 1 place reviewed?

 

Soooo.

So based on your ratings, if you have a hard time figuring out what to order, but they have Bud Light bottles available in addition to that, it automatically can't go higher than a 3.5?

 

quick. lets put more thought into this

 

To say that a place can not go above mid range because they serve BMC is foolish. Do you like to go out with your buddies? Some of them may not be into craft and I would like them to be able to enjoy themselves. What do you care what else they serve as long as you get what you want. They can serve Boone's Farm Apple Wine for all I care.

 

So if subjective reviews are insufficient, what would you recommend?

 

I look at the reviews of other places in the area, and factor that in. What I consider a reasonable price is subjective and depending on the location prices can vary. I reviewed a place in Vegas that was a bit pricey on pours but noting that it is Vegas after all it was slightly pricey.

Things like service and selection are not subjective, at least IMO. Either you serve beer at the right temps, have appropriate glassware, have a solid tap & bottle list, or you don't.

 

I wish I was smart enough to post a good answer. after 4 beers. Its not right now.
I just wish bias was not in the reviews. I love to travel and I sometimes make lists of place to visit based on them.

I think there are factual things one can use to describe a place, and then you can write about how you feel about it.

So let's be honest, I am just dreaming. its the internet.

is the place unique? for example there is only 1 place to drink Westvleteren @ the source.
# of taps/beers
good service? bad service, why is it bad. why is it good?
food served? prices? value?
type of place, bar/pub/etc
what time did you visit, is it your first visit.
do you work in the beer biz, if so where, and why are you reviewing this place.

just the facts. about all I can think of. atm.

take all this with a grain of salt, and know that its all fantasy on my part.

We are all just human. lol

cheers!

 

If I feel the selection is a "1", I'm probably not reviewing it. In fact, I"m probably not even there. :-)