[Harris County, TX] No-refusal 24/7 going into effect.

Discussion in 'Southwest' started by Clonies720, Jul 19, 2013.

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  1. Clonies720

    Clonies720 Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2012 Texas

    I'm sure this is probably beating a dead horse, but I feel it's important to know. If you plan on going out to drink more than 1 or 2 beers, it's starting to look imperative that you have a designated driver. Personally, I do not support this initiative as I believe it's legally indefensible and a potential Constitutional violation of the 4th Amendment. I am not posting this to start a flame war, so please keep any discussions civil.

    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news%2Flocal&id=9176628

    HOUSTON - No refusal is something you hear about during various holidays and three-day weekends. Well now, the policy to catch drunk drivers is in effect year round in Harris County. But the newly expanded program has raised some concerns even from those on the same side.


    Now even a random Wednesday night is a no-refusal night.For almost 10 years, no-refusal weekends have been introduced at news conferences, fronted by victims or law enforcement ahead of a holiday. According to the Harris County District Attorney's Office, they are expanding their no-refusal program to year round. That means if a suspected drunk driver refuses a Breathalyzer test, the officer will get a search warrant from a judge for a blood draw. The head of the vehicular crimes section tells Eyewitness News, "We don't want people dying on the roads at the hands of drunk drivers. We're hoping this will prevent that." He adds with blood evidence, conviction rates are much higher: 87 percent compared to 49 percent without blood. But criminal defense attorney Troy McKinney says cost is an issue. "It's a colossal expense for the government," McKinney said.


    And while the Houston Police Officer's Union supports the state's desire for more convictions, President Ray Hunt is concerned about the manpower to make the process happen. "It's going to take him or her out of their beats," Hunt said. "It could add four to six hours on a two- or three-hour DWI now, which means that a regular patrol officer could take an entire shift on a DWI." The DA's office doesn't dispute either of those concerns but believes the end result is fewer people driving drunk. Officials with the DA's office also say they've overhauled their in-house training on the subject and every prosecutor has completed it.
     
  2. TTUJohn

    TTUJohn Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2012 Texas

    I agree with you completely, I do not like this at all. Especially the fact that this:

    I would almost guarantee is the main driver of the program, not public safety. This is why I'm glad I can bike to most places I enjoy frequenting.
     
  3. JohnBender

    JohnBender Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2012 Texas

    Wait, I don't get it. If no-refusal 24/7 is legal, why doesn't every county do it?
     
  4. bccocx

    bccocx Pooh-Bah (1,576) Jan 13, 2007 Texas
    Pooh-Bah

    So Harris County is going to pay for a judge to be available 24/7 just for DWIs? I'm sure this will eventually happen in Travis County, too. The number of No-Refusal weekends has steadily rose over the years.
     
    leoingle likes this.
  5. JoesRevenge

    JoesRevenge Initiate (0) Jun 19, 2013 Texas

    It is expensive. Like the article states above, it pulls away officers from the streets for almost an entire shift which means that in order to keep a proper presence in the street the entity will have to hire more officers/schedule more shifts when DWIs are more frequent. The alternative is less of a presence which is apparently what Houston is going to do. They have decided convictions and fines are worth more than overall public safety (if it were only about safety they would be okay with just an arrest and getting those drivers off the street, but instead the numbers and money are more important).
     
  6. FUNKPhD

    FUNKPhD Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2010 Texas

    For some reason, I thought this was about seat belts. :confused:
     
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  7. JohnBender

    JohnBender Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2012 Texas

    I guess I just figured that a county could make it legal 24/7 and leave it up to the officers to enforce get a blood test or not. Does this law make it mandatory for all people pulled over on suspicion to be tested?
     
  8. JoesRevenge

    JoesRevenge Initiate (0) Jun 19, 2013 Texas

    No it is not mandatory. It is only if you refuse the breathalyzer. Also, it is not up to the officer to enforce the blood test. There has to be a warrant signed by a judge for the blood draw.

    I wonder what the statistics are for conviction rates where the driver accepted the breathalyzer? I would like to compare that to the rate of convictions when there is a blood draw to see which is the better option should you be pulled over and not know whether you over the limit or not (as we all know two beers can put you above .08 depending on the beer and your size but its hard to tell sometimes).
     
  9. boogercrack

    boogercrack Initiate (0) May 24, 2012 Texas

    I'm curious as to how long it'll take to get to the blood drawing part.

    If it takes a few hours between getting pulled over, getting the warrant signed, being transported to the facility, etc etc, a good bit of alcohol can be oxidized out in this amount of time.


    and for the record, I plan to never find out.
     
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  10. starkmarvelo

    starkmarvelo Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2010 Texas

    No, just if you're suspected of drunk driving and you refuse a FST or a breath test. It's a good program, and it gets a lot of drunk drivers off the road. It's also a more accurate test of how much alcohol is in the blood stream since a BAC over .15 is a higher offense now. The article is a bit misleading, I don't know if Harris County is planning on expanding a DWI program, but it doesn't require more officers, it just gives those officers out in the street another tool to use in getting a DWI conviction. The Judges are salaried so they won't get paid more either. San Antonio, and I imagine Austin considering the number of drunk drivers New Braunfels gets going to and fro, has a big issue with drunk driving.
     
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  11. starkmarvelo

    starkmarvelo Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2010 Texas

    30 mins to an hour. Most blood draws occur on people who are completely sloshed. So the loss of BAC wouldn't really matter much.
     
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  12. kmello69

    kmello69 Initiate (0) Nov 27, 2011 Texas

    Surprising that a group of people who probably regularly have a few drinks and then drive home have an issue with this. :rolling_eyes:

    Thankfully I have a wife who (1) doesn't drink and (2) refuses to let me drive if I'll be drinking, so I have a built in designated driver. :slight_smile:
     
    cfh64 likes this.
  13. Phil_S

    Phil_S Initiate (0) Feb 14, 2013 Texas


    It isn't that a judge has to be in the courtroom, or that they have to be available, only that they can be reached. Judges are already on call for warrants, so this is not going to be much of a change. Harris county already runs a 24/7 intake office where issues like this are dealt with.


    Basic suspicion is not enough for a cop to request a breathalzer.

    If an officer's first request is for you to do a breathalyzer, and you do so, before a field sobriety test, it cannot be used against you as they do not have enough probable cause to warrant its use.

    The way that it works is that after a cop pulls you over, they must first have the suspicion that you are over the legal limit (i.e. slurring words, poor driving, smelling like alcohol), at which point they will ask you to step out of your vehicle to perform "roadside gymnastics". They will only ask you for a breath sample if they have enough probable cause from your field sobriety test, or the fact that you smell like booze to suspect you are in fact over the legal limit. It is at this point that the no refusal law kicks in.
     
  14. Clonies720

    Clonies720 Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2012 Texas

    Did you mean .05? At .15 BAC for a 220 lb male, you'd be potentially near death.
     
  15. starkmarvelo

    starkmarvelo Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2010 Texas

    No, I meant .15. I have personally seen a 125 lb female who blew a BAC of .24 and she still lived.
     
  16. Phil_S

    Phil_S Initiate (0) Feb 14, 2013 Texas



    Conviction rates where the driver accepted the breathalyzer are difficult to actually measure, since defense attorneys have many different methods for proving that the data was incorrectly. Rule of thumb however is to never blow if you think there is a chance you are above the legal limit. The reason you want to refuse to blow, is that it can give you a longer time to sober up, and projected alcohol levels (which they will use if it has been more than an hour since you were pulled over) are much easier to dispute. Refusing to blow is a much more lenient offense than a DWI.
     
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  17. starkmarvelo

    starkmarvelo Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2010 Texas

    Might be an issue at bottle shares :stuck_out_tongue:
     
    cfh64 likes this.
  18. starkmarvelo

    starkmarvelo Initiate (0) Jan 20, 2010 Texas

    Except when they get a blood warrant :wink:
     
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  19. Clonies720

    Clonies720 Initiate (0) Oct 24, 2012 Texas

    Army?

    Let me state I have no issue with reasonable (the real debate is what is reasonable) efforts to take drunk/impaired drivers off the road. I can say I haven't seen any local BA's do anything irresponsible regarding a decision to drive.
     
  20. Phil_S

    Phil_S Initiate (0) Feb 14, 2013 Texas


    I have actually seen and heard from people, as recently as the last 24 hours, where they felt completely fine to drive, and passed field sobriety tests at .10-.12.

    It varies person to person, taking into account, muscle, fat, and how often you drink.

    The same level of BAC can also feel different day to day. Some days you may feel buzzed at a .04, and some days not until at or above .08. Unfortunately it is a very difficult science.
     
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