Harvesting from sours?

i've seen it done a few ways. one is to CAREFULLY make a starter out of it using malt extract and growing it over a week. you keep everything sterile when you go into it and are supercareful. there are youtube videos on it.

i've also read (and done on my own) the simple "dump the dregs into the carboy" method, which a lot of people do. just keep 1/4 inch of the beer's dregs in the bottle and dump away when adding the yeast. i personally opt to light the bottle mouth a minute before adding the dregs, just to kill some surface contaminants that may or may not be there.

its not the best example of viable bugs, but i just did this with some Cantillon dregs a month ago. you could definitely smell some familiar notes in the wort that I'd suggest were likely from Cantillon.

 

i made a supplication starter once. i was making a starter for another beer and drinking a supplication so i figured i'd just make a little extra and see what i could come up with. i made a 1.030 starter and just dumped the supplication dregs right in. i believe i gave it about a month before i checked it, at which point it smelled just like supplication so i figured i was getting some activity out of it. the gravity had dropped, but not a lot so there was some activity taking place. i let it set and eventually just stuck it in my fridge. sometime later i was making a sour so i pulled it out and tossed it in. i also dumped la roja dregs into the sour but i have to say that the supplication is definitely the dominating smell.

i guess the short out of this is, just make a starter and pour your dregs in. when it comes time to pitch, cold crash the starter and pitch the bottom half.

 

I always suggest doing a "starter" for about 2wks or so, simply dumping dregs in is a bad practice with sours (brett only is ok)

The reason being you dont know whats in the bottle, strains die at different rates and you could be left with something that was a very very minor player in the beer you drank absolutely taking over the one your making. Early on in my brewing sours I lost two batches to bad dregs, both tasted great before I added them, afterwards they went downhill fast (I had 5gal of same wort fermenting next to it that turned out great - only difference was the dregs)

Also, dont aerate the "starter" putting an airlock on is probably a good idea is you use a stir plate as it will keep the o2 out

 

Maybe a dumb question, because I know next to nothing about sours and culturing their bugs, but... supposing the dregs contain an 'imbalance' of strains due to uneven death rates as you allude to, how would making a starter rebalance the ratios?

 

I think it is more of a test starter to see what flavours the remaining dominant strains are kicking out...

 

like kjyost said, its more about checking the flavors, 2wks is a decent amount of time to start with (older bottles need longer ie cantillon)

 

Sorry off topic - Anyone else sing the title of this thread like "Harvester of Sorrow" by Metallica

"Havesting from Sours!" \m/

 

Per Vinnie, add some apple juice to the starter wort. The simpler sugars of the juice will be easier for the sour bugs to eat and grow as opposed to the more complex maltos. I just made a starter last week out of the dregs from Sanctification and it took 4 days @ 77*F to see any growth. Finally at just over a week I am beginning to see more signs of life... and this is in 500ml of starter wort.

 

The Mad Fermentationist (aka OldSock on BA) has a ton of experience with this and advocates adding the dregs directly to the carboy if you are pitching other yeast or making a starter if you plan on the dregs being the only source of yeast for this batch. He also has lots of great info on what you can harvest from what bottles:

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

 

The other thing to remember when culturing dregs from sour beers, is that a lot of breweries like russian river use a different bottling yeast. If you go to the russian river website, they have a bottle log that indicates the what yeast was used for bottling. They mainly use a wine yeast. So, if you try to propagate yeast from the dregs of a bottle that was conditioned with a wine yeast, you are mostly growing the wine yeast and not so much the other bugs.

https://store-54e42.mybigcommerce.com/bottle-logs/

 

Pardon the resurrection of this thread, but I stumbled across it as I was researching whether or not the dregs of Sanctification are able to be harvested. The link above led me to believe that wine yeast was used to condition Sanctification bottles - atleast in the batches where it is listed in the spreadsheet. However, the reverse label on the bottle states that Brettanomyces was used. Perhaps not the same strain as the fermentation strain, but still worth noting. (See third to last sentence in the photo.)

 

unless they heat pasteurize (which they don't), the brett will still be there.
they re-pitch with champagne yeast because the sacch that initially went in there is, more or less, dead.
Cantillon, for example, will add younger gueuze when blending and that will result in bottle carbonation.
the bugs in RR's bottles are what you want to add as a secondary bug. just add your own sacc strain (depending on how "fresh" your bottle is, since, in theory, you can use the sacc in the bottle as a primary strain. in theory.)

 

While @atomeyes is correct on all the other RR beers, Sanctification is a little different. Sanctification is 100% Brett Primary, no Sacc, then aged with more Brett and their bacteria to make it sour and funkier. They then add more Brett at bottling for carbonation. I have sucessfully cultured and used the dregs from many RR beers, Sanctification included. As far as the other with wine/champagne yeast, you can still culture the Brett and Bacteria from them, but as atomeyes said, pitch a new Sacc strain with it.