Hefeweizen Ferment Temp Question

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by invertalon, May 26, 2015.

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  1. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I just brewed my 2nd beer yesterday, a classic Hefeweizen... 4.2lbs Wheat, 3.1lb Pilsner Malt, .625oz of Hallertau and 3068 yeast (no starter) - Aggressively fermenting after 5hrs into the bucket... I hit 1.043 on gravity which should finish around 4.3% ABV and 13 IBU.

    My question is about temp... When I did my APA a few weeks ago, fermentation temp was about 66F the entire time (was cooler outside). As it was hotter yesterday and the AC wasn't on, fermentation has been at about 72-73F so far the first 12hrs or so... The AC was turned on this morning so it should drop 5F or so in the basement I would imagine to around 68F, which I will try to hold there the rest of the 2 weeks.

    I know the yeast says 64-75F optimum temp so I think I should be fine, but is there any negative to starting warmer and going to a colder temp? I have heard people going the other way around from colder to warmer to finish, so I wasn't sure!

    Flavor wise, I am looking for the banana notes for sure (so I know the warmer temp is good for that), but I also don't want it overpowering, either. I guess not much to do now, but I just wonder what to expect.

    Unrelated in a way, but I also got my efficiencies up with this batch... My mash efficiency was at 72-73%... But I do need to adjust my equipment loss profile though as I ended up with 4.2gal instead of my projected 3.5gal into the fermenter... More beer is never bad, but it also diluted my ABV a little... For a hefe though, not a big issue. Next up is a Left Hand Milk Stout clone!
     
  2. MFMB

    MFMB Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2015 Idaho

    The last two beers I made were a apa and a wit. So similar to yours. I fermented the apa at 68. All good. The wit I wanted to try at a higher temp as I wouldn't mind the fruity notes from ester. So I fermented it at 73. Honestly it came out a little boozy. It was a wit so boozy wasn't what I was going for. The thing is that there was probably a bit of error on my part. I pitched at around 73 to 75 so maybe to high of a temp and thus I got alot of fusel alcohol probably. If I do it over again I'll pitch at say 68 or 70 degrees, start fermentation there for 2 or 3 days to cut down on the fusel alcohols then bring it up to 72-73 for the rest of primary fermentation. No real help here just thoughts from a similar experience.
     
  3. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    The internal temperature is what matters. Fermentation creates internal heat that can be 2-8F higher than the ambient temperature. It's quite possible your beer was fermented too hot too soon.

    Fermenting too hot too soon makes rougher booze that can produce headaches even though it might taste fine. It can also create more esters, in this case, banana.

    Keeping the internal temperature in the mid 60s for the first 4 days and then letting it warm to 68-74F internal will generally make a smooth ale.
     
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  4. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Sorry, to clarify... The temps in my post were internal temps not ambient.
     
  5. MFMB

    MFMB Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2015 Idaho

    Yeah, my bad too. The temp at which I pitched was internal temp but the temp I stated I fermented at was ambient. As was said above, when I make it again I'll get it cooler when I pitch and start fermentation then gradually bring the temp higher a few days later. Thx
     
  6. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    White Labs suggests pitching ale yeast at 70F and letting it cool to a more ideal starting temp such as 65F within the first 24 hours. Not much fermentation is happening within the first 12 hours unless you are pitch actively fermenting yeast and the whole starter. Even then, the yeast can stall for 12-24 hours. So it's possible you started fermenting in the high 60s. Going from the low 70s to the high 60s overnight shouldn't be a problem.
     
  7. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Temperature is everything with a hefeweizen yeast. In the low 60s you'll get more clove and very little banana. Around 68-70 F you'll get a nice balance of clove and banana. Above 70 F you'll get all banana and bubblegum and no clove. Re-read the last sentence, that's what you'll have. And it will only take about 3 days to get there, not 2 weeks.
     
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  8. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    I brew a lot of hefeweizens and like to ferment around 64-65. Sweet spot to me and I like the clove to dominate the banana slightly.

    As to your question, probably impossible to guess what 24 hours at higher than optimal temps will do. I'm willing to bet it will still be tasty though
     
  9. MarkGP

    MarkGP Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2015 Rhode Island

    Will probably be a lot of banana and bubblegum. I like those flavors in a Hef and try to ferment around 75 with that yeast. Should be good!
     
    invertalon likes this.
  10. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Not good. Suggests wort was under-aerated.
     
  11. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I transferred the chilled wort through a fine mesh strainer, which dropped into my ferment bucket. By the time it was all transferred, it had a lot of bubbles on the surface.

    I then put the lid on and shook the bucket for a few minutes vigorously to get more oxygen in. Same as I did with my pale ale. Opened the lid and pitched the yeast... Wort was very foamy and IMO looked like it got the oxygen it needed.

    Why would quick fermenting mean not good aeration? Wouldn't it not take a long time to start if there wasn't good O2 in there?
     
  12. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Makes no sense to me either. Jury's still out on aeration. In general I am very skeptical and believe most of the old brewer's tales are false. See an interesting experiment here anyway: http://brulosophy.com/2015/05/25/wort-aeration-pt-1-shaken-vs-nothing-exbeeriment-results/

    He ran a recent experiment on fermentation temperature as well. People can't tell the difference. The exception though is for hefeweizen yeast, and Belgian yeasts as well. There's oodles of data available showing that cool = clove, warm = banana and bubblegum. Balance is not too difficult but is around upper 60s. With Belgian yeasts, things are a bit more complicated. In my experience also, the Wyeast and White Labs yeasts are NOT AT ALL equivalent, totally different. But anyway...........
     
  13. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I checked this morning and one of my bucket thermometers shows 66-67F and the other at 70F. Not sure which is more accurate, I will have to check that for future batches.

    The hefeweizen fermenting for sure has a unique smell.. The sulfur odor that is often reported with this yeast... I was expecting bananas or something nice like that, not eggs! I am sure it will turn out great though, just weird! Fermenting is slowing down, I expect it will finish in another day or two and then I will let it clean up another week or so before bottling.
     
  14. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    The hefe I brewed on Saturday started bubbling at about 5-6 hours after pitching my starter of 3068 as well. Even when I did the starter I was seeing krausen in the flask literally 3-4 hours after pitching, so I'm pretty sure this strain is just eager to get going. I aerated the hell out of my wort too, so I wouldn't worry about it. I'm smelling clean banana/yeasty aromas out of the airlock now. The sulfur odor should subside after the vigorous ferment winds down.

    Banana is what I'm wanting in the final flavor, since I want it to be a kind of pseudo-tropical hefe (citra at flameout and amarillo dry hop). I am fermenting at around 70. By what you've said so far, you should be good on fermentation and temp. The temperature range for this yeast is anywhere from 64-75, so it really just depends on the flavor your wanting. Low end or high end..
     
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  15. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    From MoreBeer ...
    "Lag time is a common benchmark that brewers use to gauge the health of yeast and the vigor of fermentation. It is possible, however, to overemphasize the significance of lag time, on its own, as a meaningful indicator. A very short lag time, for example, does not necessarily mean that your yeast has gotten off to a phenomenal start and just can’t wait to ferment. It could well mean just the opposite — that a low supply of nutrients and oxygen in the wort gave the yeast no recourse but to begin converting sugar to alcohol in order to survive.

    "The latter stages of fermentation may also appear to finish more quickly when in fact the process was not super-efficient, but rather, incomplete. The point is that speed does not necessarily correlate with quality."
     
  16. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Nice theory. Deep. Perhaps true but I don't believe so. My bet is everything's fine and full of banana, and if he's luckly maybe some bubblegum (which I think is tasty).
     
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  17. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Christopher White speaks ... you listen.
     
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  18. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    it's not a theory and it's not deep either. it's just the way of yeast. we have learned a lot about how beer is made in the last few decades. some people actually study this stuff if you can believe it!

    Cheers.
     
  19. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    "Does not necessarily mean". "Could well mean the opposite" :confused:

    Classic Chris White non-committal double speak right there. :rolling_eyes:

    Statements with blatant ambiguity written by so called experts are easily mistaken as facts for those who seek validation for their confirmation bias. :grimacing:

    Kaboooom!!! :sunglasses:

    :grinning:

    (should have used more emoticons)
     
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  20. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    The MoreBeer quote did not come from White; however ... it does capture the essence of his article in BYO.
     
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