Help a novice out?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by deleted_user_1007501, Mar 16, 2016.

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  1. deleted_user_1007501

    deleted_user_1007501 Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2015

    Having only brewed for a little over a year now, and only mustering a handful of batches in that time (mainly pales and IPAs), it's safe to say I'm still getting into a "rhythm" of brewing and its process.

    Typically, like most beginners, I mainly brew using malt extracts. (I am eager to venture on to all-grain, but have not yet made a strong effort to build/purchase a tun).

    A lot of the Brewers Best kits I used early on for IPAs, DIPAs, and even the pale ale tend to have a bit of a strong, bit toasted and sweet malt character. I noticed almost each one at least had crushed Caramel 20L and 6.6lbs Light LME.

    So my question goes out to anyone familiar with extract brewing, what is a solid extract/steepable malt bill for an IPA that will result in a much cleaner and brighter flavor? Also a brighter color, too. My first brews always turned out quite dark. The last IPA I had made looked much more like a red ale.
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Extract beers, especially liquid malt extract (LME) beers, tend to be darker than equivalent all grain beers. You could do full volume boils instead of partial volume (and topped off) boils. You could make sure you are getting fresh LME, or you could use dry malt extract (DME) instead of liquid. That would help. And/or you could try cutting back on the specialty malts, but that's not really the best solution. For the best control of color, flavor, and mouthfeel, all grain is the way to go.
     
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  3. CarolusP

    CarolusP Zealot (590) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    Unless the volume is much less than intended, I wouldn't expect Caramel 20L and Light LME to produce that dark of a beer. You could always try subbing the Light LME with Extra Light LME if you want a lighter color.
     
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  4. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I agree with VikeMan, although I'll also add a suggestion regarding the LME (or DME for that matter). Add just 25% of the extract at the beginning of the boil so that it does not stay in the kettle so long and potentially scorch and darken. Secondly, for LME, cut your heat when adding it because it is so heavy that it goes right to the bottom of the kettle and will sit there and scorch if your flame is right under it. Stir it well before restarting your flame.

    I think if the sweetness of your previous beers is too much for your taste, you can cut back on the caramel malt.
     
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  5. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    As stated, extract will be darker than all grain. LME, especially if it is old is going to be unacceptably dark. And also foul.

    • Substitute DME whenever possible, avoid LME.
    • Use full wort boils.
    • Avoid old and stale LME/kits.
    • Consider perhaps 10% Dextrose addition to lighten the body and increase abv, or substitute accordingly. Adjust hop additions.
    • Add most of the extract at the last 10 minutes.
    Off the top of my head for extract IPA.
    6# extra light DME
    3# light or maybe amber DME
    2 ounces high AA hops at 60 minutes
    1 ounce same hop at flame out
    US-05.
    Avoid specialty grains for now.

    Enjoy.
     
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  6. deleted_user_1007501

    deleted_user_1007501 Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2015

    Wow, the stale LME probably had a lot to do with how shitty my last IPA was! Also didn't know that it was better to add the extract a bit later.

    And are you saying to add another ounce of what I bittered with at FO?
     
  7. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    LME is notorious for its ability to ruin your brew. I think it's fair to say most of us avoid LME. Sure, some DME is used by all grain brewers from time to time. But LME has no place in the brewery. Those kits that are sitting on the shelf can be God knows how old.

    Final hop addition can be what you prefer for aroma. It is simply easier to use the same hop as your bittering hop to avoid conflicts in that department. But if you care to explore good hop combinations go for it.
    Cheers.
     
  8. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    When I brewed extract, I used Morebeer's proprietary ultra light LME because it produced better tasting results than DME. Didn't have a problem with wort darkening and I dumped the whole bag of LME at the start of the boil.

    Now, I'm not saying all LME is good to use. I'm just saying this was consistently good LME:

    https://www.morebeer.com/products/ultralight-malt-extract-syrup.html
     
  9. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

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  10. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, I avoid LME, but if I did it would be from a high turn over shop. Good beer can be made from fresh LME, but moving to DME is just one more possible problem eliminated.Cheers
     
  11. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Lots of good advise above. I just wanted to add two things regarding your beers' sweetness issues...

    Many kits just add too many specialty grains, IMO.

    Sweet beer can be the result of poor yeast practices, like pitching old yeast, under pitching, or not properly aerating your wort.

    If you use fresh ingredients, baby the yeast, and follow the advise above, you can make good beer from LME.
     
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  12. deleted_user_1007501

    deleted_user_1007501 Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2015

    All of you guys have been extremely informative! And has definitely helped me finally pinpoint why some past brews have fallen flat on their face. I will definitely have to give DME a shot next time, or better yet an all-grain with truly fresh ingredients!
     
  13. deleted_user_1007501

    deleted_user_1007501 Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2015

    Along with the DME though, are there any steepable grains you would recommend? I have a homebrew shop near me that crushes anything you could desire. I would like to use real grain along with DME.
     
  14. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    For an IPA your only steepable grain options, unless you are up for a minimash, are crystal malts. You're kind of starting a sh!tstorm though with that question, since opinions are all over on whether to use them or not, which ones to use, and how much. Using dark crystal malts or too much crystal malt will make your beer taste sweet, however, which is something you stated you wish to avoid.
     
  15. Jduche17

    Jduche17 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2015 Canada (QC)

    I Also use extract and I have found that keeping 60 to 70 % of either the LME or DME until the final 15 min of the boil reduces the darkness by a lot and so far i am very satisfied with the results . As For grains it all depends on the style of beer you are doing .
     
  16. deleted_user_1007501

    deleted_user_1007501 Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2015

    Forgive me if I sound naive, so essentially, if I were to add bittering hops @60, then adding the DME later, I'm just dropping the bittering hops into boiling water?
     
  17. Jduche17

    Jduche17 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2015 Canada (QC)

    well not exactly , you would ad approx 40 % of your DME or your LME at the beginning and keep 60% for the final 15 min .
    if you have a total of 7lbs of DME that would mean 2.8 lbs at the beginning ant the remaining 4.2 lbs in the final 15 min of the boil . You will have a lighter color with this technique even if nothing else changes in your recipe it will not affect OG or IBU simply color .
     
  18. deleted_user_1007501

    deleted_user_1007501 Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2015

    I see I see. That makes much more sense
     
  19. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I added in bold a phrase that I inadvertently omitted in the original post that made it confusing to read.
    @Jduche17 has a good explanation, but the percentages are not so critical that you would need to measure out 4.2 pounds of DME to add 40%. Whether it's 40% at the beginning of the boil or 25% as I used in my post, it's only important that you use the total correct amount for both additions.
     
    #19 PapaGoose03, Mar 17, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
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  20. Jduche17

    Jduche17 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2015 Canada (QC)


    I Agree percentages are not relevant , i wanted to make things as clear as possible :slight_smile:
     
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