Help: First Tapped Keg in Keezer = endless foamation!

Discussion in 'Home Bar' started by Ahenobarb, Nov 4, 2014.

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  1. Ahenobarb

    Ahenobarb Initiate (0) Nov 4, 2014

    Help! I've tapped a keg of Miller lite in a pony keg using a commercial tap in the keezer I just built. The temperature is 38F (or 3.5C), the PSI on the gas line is currently 5 (I've been setting it down to reduce foaming ... with no luck).

    The gas lines are 5/16ths connectors and 5/16th tubing. The liquid lines are 1/4" connectors and 1/4" tubing.

    I noticed that the beer appears liquid in the tube, but foams when it crosses through the tap (though there is a little bit of foam here and there in the tube -- think of a circle, in some places the foam may by 2-3% at the top of that circle).

    Is it possible, I have a crap tap that should be replaced that's causing the foam? Is it that the PSI is too hi/low? Could it be that the beer in the keg has not yet cooled to the proper temperature (it's definitely warmer than 38F)?

    I would like to give this beer a standing foamation for its obstinacy. Glad I'm learning this on a beer I don't care much about. :wink:

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    all of the above.
    a "tap" goes into a keg. a faucet is the device that pours beer. important distinction.

    replace the 1/4" beer line with 3/16" ID beverage line. use about 5'.

    set pressure to 10 to 12 psi.

    wait until the beer gets to 38 degrees. check it with an accurate thermometer.

    then let us know. welcome to BA.
    Cheers.
    edit, use the search function, examine this board as your experience is very very common.
     
  3. Ahenobarb

    Ahenobarb Initiate (0) Nov 4, 2014

    Cooled beer to the temp it should be.

    Put 5 feet of 3/16ths tubing on the liquid side.

    Better, but still 3/4ths foam.

    I'm not using any type of clamp to connect the tubing to the barb. They are on very tight, but is it possible air is still getting in there? Clamps necessary?

    Also, I don't have a faucet wrench, so that might be a factor for air penetration.
     
  4. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    You still have a lot going on here, and as you are finding out kegs are not plug and play. You need to understand the relationship between beer temp, volumes of CO2 (2.6 for Miller I believe) and the applied pressure. First you need the actual temperature of the beer, which is a number not a phrase. To get this you need a calibated thermometer and a room temp glass. Pour a beer, and then immediately dump or chug it. Pour a second beer in the same glass, and take the temperature of the beer, not the foam and not touching the sides of the glass. You need a number like XX.X. Then using the volumes of CO2, go to a force carbonation chart to determine the correct applied pressure. Once this pressure has been set and let to stand for a while, draw a beer. The resultant beer line should stay solid beer with no pockets of bubbles. Pockets of bubbles suggest your system is unbalanced and you are getting CO2 breakout. 5' of line is a bit short for most applications, longer lines slow the flow of properly balanced beer to reduce agitation. Not having a faucet wrench is also an issue and a possible place to cause foaming. You will want to add clamps to the barb fittings, but this is not causing your issue right now.
     
  5. Ahenobarb

    Ahenobarb Initiate (0) Nov 4, 2014

    It's in the first post, but bears repeating.

    The beer has reached that temperature now. I tightened the faucet with the wrench (there was still a bit of play there). I added clamps to both barbed ends of the liquid line. However, I noticed that the union of the barb and the tube at the tap started leaking when I clamped it tightly, so I think this is likely [one of] the problem(s).

    The pour starts very liquid, then quickly turns to foam.

    PSI is at 10 after trying 12 with similar result.

    [nods in agreement.]
     
  6. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    Yes you did have a temperature in your first post, but you really weren't clear about what that wax the temperature if. Anyone who has tried to solve foam problems would gladly take a nickel for every time someone had no clue what temperature mattered and how to take it.

    The beer followed by the burst of foam is the pockets of bubbles coming through the faucet. If you stop that pour and immediately start another pour in a fresh glass, what do you get?

    At 2.6 volumes and 38.0 degrees you will be looking at around 12.5 psi to balance. Bear in mind your pressure changes take a long time to take effect, it isn't like the volume on your radio. You should wait 10-12 hours or more between pressure adjustments.

    If the tail piece on the coupler side is suspect you should change it. Did you try tightening the coupler nut after you put the hose clamp on? If you are going to the store for a tail piece, you should get at least 8' of line. I assume the new line you put on is actual beer line and not from a hardware store, but it is worth asking.
     
  7. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    be certain that if you do not have any leaks you do not have air entering your system. this is a guarantee.

    clamps are nice, but a tight fitting tube to a proper sized barb will not need a clamp. the clamp is insurance, and good insurance. there is not one clamp on any dispense line in my 7 faucet home kegerator.

    any change you make to the pressure will take about one day to make a difference. the gas does not immediately dissolve into liquid. so if you add pressure, expect about a day for the beer to have an increase in dissolved CO2. same goes for a decrease in pressure. it will take a day or so for the gas to exit the liquid in the keg and reach equilibrium with the applied gas pressure above the liquid.

    patience.

    do this one step at a time. do not try to change three things at once. we will not be able to determine what it is that you need to fix.
    lastly, and this is crucial, be sure you thermometer is accurate. if your probe is out of whack by two degrees you might be at 40. you might be at 36. big difference.
    let's see how this thing pours tomorrow afternoon.
    Cheers.
     
    PortLargo, Kadonny and IceAce like this.
  8. Kadonny

    Kadonny Pooh-Bah (2,616) Sep 5, 2007 Florida
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Balance is key, but for anyone starting out a good starting place is 7-8ft of 3/16 id beer hose, 10-12 psi and a temperature around 34-38 degrees. This should give you a decent pour as a staring point. It may not be perfect, but it can be adjusted from there.

    As others said, let that increased pressure sink into the beer, make sure all connections are tight and air free and monitor your liquid temperature. Do you have a tower or are your faucets attached right to the side of the keezer. If a tower, cooling that helps with the initial pour reducing foam.
     
  9. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Good advice given above on waiting for your adjustments to take place. I suggest that while you are waiting you do the following:

    Read this link

    Buy about 2.5 x as much 3/16" beer line as you think you might need (everyone and their brother carries it) . . . life will be easier . . .
     
  10. Ahenobarb

    Ahenobarb Initiate (0) Nov 4, 2014

    This. Just poured a test glass: 4/5th beer with a nice bit of head on it. Perfect!

    Kegs are one heck of a lot more finicky than I thought.
     
  11. DrinkAnchorSteam

    DrinkAnchorSteam Zealot (558) Jan 23, 2014 Pennsylvania

    My usual methods go like so

    1. Bring new keg into house and set it in kegorator.
    2. Let it sit at least 4 hours so the beer settles from movement
    3. Have CO2 OFF for first few pours as the keg itself might be force carbed.
    4. Turn CO2 back on after initial keg CO2 runs out.
     
  12. Ahenobarb

    Ahenobarb Initiate (0) Nov 4, 2014

  13. AndrewK

    AndrewK Savant (1,123) Oct 20, 2006 California

  14. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    actual resistance of 3/16" beer line is 2.2 psi/ft. the 3.0 psi/ft value is a relic from the past but still sticks around. modern tubing is better. better=smooth bore and less resistance. also less places for crap to build up and easier to clean.
    Cheers.
     
  15. Kadonny

    Kadonny Pooh-Bah (2,616) Sep 5, 2007 Florida
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    OP, glad you got things working better. Tap beer at home is the work of gods when it's flowing correctly.
     
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