help for a second mashing

It sounds like a partygyle. However, you would still sparge, but you'd have a stronger beer from the first runnings and a weaker beer from the second (sparged) runnings. If you just want to do something to create some variety, you could use a different yeast strain, or dry hop one and not the other. Either way you could also "cap" the mash, putting some more grain in the tun before you run off the sparge.

 

I've never done it but I assume he's talking about second runnings beer. Here's a good article that I found, sounds interesting, might do it with my next big RIS. http://byo.com/stories/item/1963-parti-gyle-brewing-techniques.

I think I remember reading that Goose Island made a beer with the second runnings of BCBS, gonna try to find a source on that. Edit: found it: http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1549/68363/?sort=high&start=0

 

It sounds like you are talking about a partigyle. I have never done this before but have toyed with the idea. I know others here are much more familiar with this process.

 

That's what was done in the past before sparging was introduced. Often they mashed three times, or thought they did because of course the subsequent mashings were really rinses.

 

Everyone else has pretty much answered the question you asked, my concern is the gravities of the beers. With that grist, assuming 75% efficiency, if you do a 2/3 + 1/3 split you are looking at 1.075 & 1.038, if you do a 50/50 you are looking at 1.067 & 1.033. What kind of beer do you want to make from the grains? If you want an Imperial Rye Stout of some sorts you are going to be fairly low on the OG, maybe an Imperial Brown?

 

Yupp.

 

For a 50/50 split, 4 gallons each, you are looking at 1.081 & 1.041. The FG will be based on your mash temp. Around 150, should get you around 1.017-1.020 with American Ale yeast, just over 8% ABV.

Yes. A 2000ml starter around 1.040 OG, shaking it as often as you pass by. If you have a stir plate you can get away with a 1200ml starter.

 

I toyed with the partygyle idea, but wound up ditching the plan at the last minute. Not that it's a bad idea, but the numbers weren't really optimal enough to proceed. These take more planning (and have more unknowns) than a standard batch, so definitely read, read/watch/listen to the links, and expect the unexpected*.

*truthfully, a most useless term. but it gets the point across

 

Why so high? Using a trappist/belgian yeast, I am assuming that you are making a trappist/belgian inspired beer? The one thing they all desire is a very fermentable wort. 158 will leave far too many unfermentable sugars for a belgian, and it will be like drinking candi sugar. 148*F sounds about right, and that will get you down to a FG of around 1.015, 9.7% ABV

In partigyle brewing (second mash) you split the runnings from the mash. The first runnings are always higher in OG than the second. There are 2 ways to do it. You can take 1/3 of the runnings for the first beer (3 gallon batch) and the last 2/3 for the second (6 gallons). The other option is to do a 50/50 split, collect enough wort in one kettle for a 5 gallon batch (in your case 4 gallons) and then collect the same amount in a second kettle for a smaller beer.

Just to clarify, how long have you been brewing All Grain?

 

Another link: http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.2/mosher.html

 

Do you really need to do a partigyle on your first all grain batch? Maybe get some experience, then do a partigyle?

Not that the plan is impossible, but baby steps >>> giant leaps when it comes to homebrew. Also, the KISS methodology plan can be yours for only $69.95, in three easy to understand CD ROMs, with accompanying literature packet and a complementary 12oz Lager beer from KISS brewing...

Also, if twenty bucks is a HUGE factor...

Multiple pots to get a full boil is ok tho. Make sure to split the hops proportional to the amount of wort in each pot (weighted average, not just "two pots, split the hops in half").

 

drewbage has done several articles on this technique in Beer Advocate as well. Wish I could link some of his articles because he did a good job covering the technique. Mosher as pweiss links above introduced me to it in the book Radical Brewing where he covers it fairly extensively and talks about capping the mash for 2nd runnings which can be a big help to add body for the small beer.
You wouldn't want to add oats to the mash for 2nd runnings, but crystal malt or a different steeping grain would be appropriate. Honey, molasses or candi sugar to the kettle would be good as well.

 

unless you're planning on giving the oats time with some base grain to convert the starch to sugars, oats are probably not the best addition. Starch is something most brewers try to minimize in their beer for a couple reasons unless trying for a sour.

 

The hardest part is figuring out what you will have beforehand. I have done a few Partigyles, and the process has changed since the beginning.
My first was a straight split of first and second runnings. The finished products were very mixed results. The first running Barleywine had an OG of 1.110 (planned for 1.095, big difference), and the second running ESB was 1.041 (planned for 1.055). The barleywine was good, but way too sweet since I didn't account for the additional sugars when planning out the hops to balance it out, also I know I underpitched the yeast based on this surprise gravity jump. The ESB (err...standard bitter) on the other hand was over bitter, but quite delicious after a couple months.
Since that first experience I have picked up a refractometer, and work on three runnings. First for the big beer, second for the small beer, and the third to even gravities out. I also cap the mash most times with a variety of different malts.
Ask away if you have any specific questions.

 

I would also say, do not Partigyle your first (second, third, fourth...) AG batch. Learn the process and your system.