Help. German Pils low color & low bitterness (underwhelmed)

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by scurvy311, Jul 23, 2014.

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  1. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Brewed a german pils for comp. Its been lagering for a week and is 90% carbonated. It came out the color of Micholob Ultra, if not a little lighter and much less hop bitterness than 30ibus tinseth suggests. When everything seems to go pretty smooth, just like the other 30 batches and it is off from style guidelines, I need help figuring out what happened. In reading style guidelines, it is more like a standard American lager using pils, but without the flavor of pils, really not much flavor at all. It is just soooooo underwhelming. No flavor faults, except for the lack of flavor.

    Hit all gravity numbers:
    1.044 OG
    1.010 FG

    pH 5.0 going into fermenter

    Here are the stats:
    Collected 7.2gal
    Fermented 6.0ga
    65% efficiency (no sparge)

    Grains & Adjuncts
    10.00 lbs Pilsner Floor Malted 2L
    1.00 lbs Kolsch Malt 4.5L
    0.50 lbs Acidulated Malt 2.5L

    Hops
    0.90 ozs Pearle 60 mins 9.20
    0.50 ozs Hallertauer Mittelfrueh 15 mins 4.30
    0.50 ozs Hallertauer Mittelfrueh 1 mins 4.30

    Yeasts
    White Labs 0830 (hit FG in 7 days)
    500mL slurry (overpitch according to brewers friend)
    48F for 1 week
    53F for 1 week

    Additions (used EZ Water, based on the "water regions 2" podcast from Brew Strong)
    4.00 g W-Gypsum
    5.00 g W-Calc. Chloride
    2.00 g W-Epson Salt
    3.20 g W-Chalk

    Mash Profile
    90 min @ 151.0°F
     
  2. satxbrew

    satxbrew Aspirant (228) Jun 13, 2011 Texas

    You may have gotten a bad crush. Sometimes home brew shops run so much grain that their mills begin to get out of adjustment. One side gap will be smaller than the other sides gap. The grain on the more open end does not get crushed very well.

    I have a friend that does no sparge, and he does not get very good efficiency. He compensates by adding extra malt.
    Your water profile also looks a bit off, but I am not a water expert. I usually use RO water and add a bit of calcium chloride to get my calcium levels up to about 50 ppm. I don't think you want to add Chalk or Epsom salt to get soft water.

    I do think your gravity numbers are pretty good though. 1.044 should make great summer drinking beer, and I think your beer will also taste better with a few weeks of lagering.
     
  3. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't have any alkalinity in my Pilsners. The MG from the Epsom salts is probably OK, I did not run the ppg levels.

    I use a lot more hops later in the boil to get the hop flavor and aroma I want from a German Pils.
     
  4. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    " I don't think you want to add Chalk or Epsom salt to get soft water."

    I agree
     
  5. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    I thought that your water looked a little off. I'd be wanting soft as hell, and my Bo Pils comes out really, really nice. Pils Urquell like. Pretty much my childhood memory of sipping them.
     
  6. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    Thx for the replies. Would water I used, being off as it was, play that big a role? I tasted it again today on a fresh palate. If it had any less flavor and bitterness there would be none. it's weird that I hit all my numbers gravity wise, but it's almost clear. It looks like I took 3/4 michlob ultra and added 1/4 tap water. And tastes about the same. This is not a style I would normally brew except for the local comp I wanted to enter. I'll let my brother taste it (natty light drinker). If he wants it, I'm bottling it all in bombers and giving it to him. I'm a little "gun shy" now confidence-wise.
     
  7. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

  8. Soneast

    Soneast Pooh-Bah (1,751) May 9, 2008 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I wonder if overpitching could have been a contributing factor as well? According to Jamil you get a lot of character during the yeast growth phase. Even lagers can benefit from this growth phase. Granted you're not looking for fruity esters or what not like from an ale yeast, but you still get a bit of contributing character that could potentially cause the beer to taste nondescript if it is missing. That combined with the water profile which may subdue malt and/or hop character could certainly lead to a "bland" pilsner.

    I don't think the color is out of the ordinary considering the grain bill. Any predominately pilsner malt-based beer will be pale yellow in color in my experience.
     
  9. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

  10. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Any chance that it's due to the slightly undermodified nature of the floor-malted (vs. normal) pils malt? Perhaps you would have had better luck utilizing a step mash (with protein rest and another rest around 144-146F) instead of just the 90 min at 151?
     
    premierpro likes this.
  11. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    I hadn't thought of that. I could contribute the hops to age. They werea year old but stored 100% of the time in freezer in original packaging. But it has to be a malt issue right? Could malt contribute the gravity without the malt flavor/color?
     
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Could be you extracted less fermentable sugars mashing at that temp. See below:

    Beta Amylase 130 - 150°F 5.0 - 5.6 Produces small, highly fermentable sugars.
    Alpha Amylase 155 - 167°F 5.3 - 5.8 Produces larger, less fermentable sugars

    When I brew my Koelsch, I mash typically between 144-146F, and, although I use the more modified regular Weyermann pils malt, I get a good depth of maltiness.
     
    #12 herrburgess, Jul 24, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  13. mattbk

    mattbk Savant (1,111) Dec 12, 2011 New York

    A German pils should have a decent hop bite. You'll need a bit more hops I think than 0.5 oz at 15 and 1 min. I'd think about doubling those additions.

    I agree your water profile is also off. Take out everything but the gypsum and go from there. If your alkalinity is too high you'll need to dilute or acidify your water.
     
  14. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Bo Pils yes, German Pils no.
     
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  15. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    German pils is a tough style. I had to do it 4-5 times before I was happy with mine. Some observations, for whatever they're worth:

    Just eyeballing this, it looks like your hop additions were on the light side, and your OG was a little low. I like to shoot for about 10-15% higher in both IBUs and OG. Also, I like to add a little munich, which will give the malt base a bit more character (and give the beer a slightly darker color). Also, without running it through a calculator, it looks like your water additions would produce water that's relatively hard for the style. Generally, I shoot for relatively soft water with a decent sulphate presence: something around 50ppm Ca and around 90 SO4.

    I'm sure you know that this is a style where it's particularly important to have fresh, high quality ingredients, so I doubt you had a problem with stale hops of low quality malt. Most likely, a few minor adjustments to the recipe will make all the difference.
     
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I took note that the OP mentioned "Pilsner Floor Malted 2L"; I am assuming this is from Weyermann.

    I have never brewed with Weyermann Floor Malted Pilsner malt. Is this malt sufficiently modified for a single infusion mash? Should a step mash been conducted instead?

    Cheers!
     
  17. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (1,135) Dec 3, 2005 Louisiana

    It's for a local comps "people's choice". I was purposely going subtle and gearing it towards mostly local bmc while stil appealing to the German beer drinkers. Last year a schwarzbier won and I knew many would be doing something dark. I've used the Weyermann malt in the last 4 batches of German beers for the comp (all dark styles though) so it could be that. Very interesting. Maybe they are missing Pilsner malt flavor but it was difficult to detect due to the larger percentages of Munich and/or dark grains.
     
  18. MLucky

    MLucky Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2010 California

    The floor malted Weymerann malt should be fine. I just made a Czech pils with it, using a single infusion, and it turned out pretty well. (Could've used a little more bittering hops maybe, but the malt base tastes very good.)

    One other thought just crossed my mind: how long did you lager? I've had some pilsners that weren't very impressive on first tasting, but which just got better and better as they aged/lagered in the keg. I know people say 6 weeks should be fine for a pils, but in my experience they are much better at about 10 weeks. If this one hasn't lagered for at least two months, don't get rid of it: let it lager another month and reevaluate.
     
    herrburgess likes this.
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