Help me diagnose my issue

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by meatballj626j, Sep 19, 2014.

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  1. meatballj626j

    meatballj626j Initiate (0) May 7, 2009 Georgia

    I recently brewed a mocktoberfest. I took a sample on Wednesday night and it finished high. The sample was also pretty cloudy and did not taste as I expected it to. Since it has been on the yeast for 4 weeks, I have decided that there is not a whole lot I can do about it now, and I am just going to go ahead and bottle it. I am wondering if someone could help me diagnose where I made an error, in the attempt to prevent the problem in the future.

    First, this was for a 3 gallon batch. The boil was 3 gallons of distilled water, and I topped off with distilled water to put 3 gallons in the fermenter. Here is the recipe:

    3.15 lbs Munich LME (Breiss)
    1 lb Golden Light LME (Breiss)
    0.25 lbs CaraMunich (Steeped @ 155f for 30 min)
    0.25 lbs Crystal 80L (Steeped @ 155f for 30 min)

    OG: 1.053
    FG: 1.013
    1 oz of Tettanger @ 60 min

    Yeast US-05 Re-hydrated

    Fermented at 65 degrees (probe is taped to the fermentation bucket).

    OG as measured: 1.056 (could be mixing issue)
    FG as measured: 1.020

    So in my self diagnosis for the high final FG I am uncertain of the viability of the yeast, as I did not look at the expiration date, so that could be an issue. Another issue is oxygenation of the wort, I tried to stir and shake the best I could but nothing scientific. I dont think the fermentation temp is too low as I have fermented previous beers at this temp without any issues.

    Wort ferment-ability may also be an issue. I need to check my notes on the only other batch of beer I used Munich LME and see if I finished high with it as well. The other issue may be that while steeping the grains the temperature fell to 140's and I quickly heated the wort up to the steeping temp.

    Now for the sample. The cloudiness my be from disturbing the yeast while trying to pry the bucket lid off. I stuck the sample in the fridge for a bit, and that helped a little, but it was still hazy. I am not overly concerned at this point with the aesthetics of look of the beer (I dont need a crystal clear beer).

    I generally will taste my samples to get an idea on how it may taste, but realize that it can change once carbed. The sample tasted a little green, as one could expect, but it also had a bit of a burnt sugar taste to it. It also had a slight hoppy tartness to it. The overall taste was not terrible, and I think it will drink ok, but its not an Oktoberfest.

    I appreciate any help, and I hope I have provided enough information for a diagnosis.
     
    #1 meatballj626j, Sep 19, 2014
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    My guess is that your beer turned out just fine.

    Munich malt is less fermentable then other base malts (e.g., pale malt, pilsners malt, etc.) so I would expect that the Briess Munich LME will be a less fermentable malt extract due to the Munich Malt contribution.

    You also used 0.5 lbs. of crystal/caramel malts which will add dextrins to the beer; FWIW I use 0.5 lbs. of Cara Munich Malt for a 5 lb. batch of Oktoberfest beer so your proportion of 0.5 lbs. for a 3 gallon batch is a bit high (for my homebrewing process).

    So, given your ingredients a FG of 1.020 sounds correct to me.

    I know that some folks like for their beers to be highly attenuated but I think certain beer styles benefit from not being highly attenuated and I think that the Oktoberfest/Marzen style is one of them.

    To quote Charlie Papazian: Relax, Don’t Worry, Have a Homebrew!

    Cheers!

    Edit: In my experience US-05 is a highly attenuating yeast strain.
     
    #2 JackHorzempa, Sep 19, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014
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  3. meatballj626j

    meatballj626j Initiate (0) May 7, 2009 Georgia

    I would also liked to add I used irish moss at 15 min as finings. My hopes were in a hop bag , but I was not however able to strain my wort going into the bucket.
     
    #3 meatballj626j, Sep 19, 2014
  4. kbuzz

    kbuzz Initiate (0) Jan 22, 2011 North Carolina

    A+ on your ability to provide details. I always open these threads expecting to have to ask for more.

    PS - I think Jack nailed it with his answer, so I'll skip that part.
     
    #4 kbuzz, Sep 19, 2014
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  5. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Sometime it's just difficult to predict what the raw beer should taste like. Your detail of your procedures tells me that your beer will be okay. I'd go ahead and bottle it and surprise yourself with a great beer in a couple of weeks.
     
    #5 PapaGoose03, Sep 19, 2014
    meatballj626j likes this.
  6. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Diagnosed issue: not relaxing, worrying, and no home brew
    Solution to prevent the problem in the future: realxing, not worrying, having a home brew
     
    #6 HerbMeowing, Sep 20, 2014
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  7. meatballj626j

    meatballj626j Initiate (0) May 7, 2009 Georgia

    Thanks, and I am trying to relax hence why I didnt really freak out and try something drastic like trying to repitch or something. I guess I had hydrometer shock when it didnt finish out like I thought it might.

    As far the recipe I think a good point about the amount of crystal is a good indicator as why it did finish higher than expected. And I will see how the beer finishes once it is carbed.

    Thank you for the help.
     
    #7 meatballj626j, Sep 20, 2014
  8. bgjohnston

    bgjohnston Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2009 Connecticut

    For what it's worth, I usually finish higher than expected with extract-based recipes. Going all-grain, mashing for maximum fermentability, and seeing my beer over-attenuate was an eye-opening experience for me.
     
    #8 bgjohnston, Sep 20, 2014
  9. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    I'm with Jack on this one; your beer is probably fine. I would either (1) move to a secondary and/or cold crash to encourage more clarity or (2) simply go ahead and bottle as it will clear up as it sits in the bottle.
     
    #9 utahbeerdude, Sep 21, 2014
  10. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    I think it is possible you didn´t get a strong rolling boil, thus turbidity seems to come from a weak coagulation. If this is the case you are going to have some shelf life issues. I would recommend you to use Polyclar during secondary to clarify crashing proteins down.
     
    #10 Tebuken, Sep 21, 2014
  11. meatballj626j

    meatballj626j Initiate (0) May 7, 2009 Georgia

    Thanks for all the replies. I ended up cold crashing it over the weekend and I bottled last night. The beer definitely cleared up, so I think the cloudiness may be from me agitating the bucket trying to get the top off to take a sample.

    One quick question. When I was determining my priming amount, utilizing tastybrew, I put my fermentation temperature (65f) down instead of the temperature of the beer at bottling (38f). Will this be an issue?
     
    #11 meatballj626j, Sep 23, 2014
  12. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina

    I would let it carb at room temp, 15 - 20 days . Then put it as cold as you can without freezing.
     
    #12 Tebuken, Sep 23, 2014
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    No, you're okay. You want to use the temperature from the end of the fermentation. Lowering the temperature after that won't add significantly to the residual CO2, because the yeast have stopped making it.
     
    #13 VikeMan, Sep 23, 2014
  14. Seacoastbrewer

    Seacoastbrewer Initiate (0) Jun 5, 2012 New Hampshire

    To take you in a new direction, I wouldn't really expect Safale US-05 to taste much like an Oktoberfest anyhow. It will still make beer, so no worries there. Maybe experiment with other yeast strains to see which you enjoy.

    Do you have the capability/equipment to lager? If so, give it a shot. I find brewing lagers rewarding in their own right due to the time and effort required.
     
    #14 Seacoastbrewer, Sep 23, 2014
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    US-05 is a fairly neutral yeast and the OP fermented with it on the cool side: “Fermented at 65 degrees (probe is taped to the fermentation bucket).”

    In this beer I would expect very restrained esters and the malty flavors from Munich Malt and specialty malt should be dominant.

    I personally have never made a mock lager beer but I would strongly suspect that the Oktoberfest/Marzen style is likely the best lager beer style to make a mock lager beer.

    A brewery near me (Flying Fish) makes a very tasty Oktoberfest Ale they call OktoberFish:

    OktoberFish™

    First released in 2002, and sold out in two weeks. A tribute to the classic Fest styles of Germany the O'Fish uses European malts hops and yeast. A beautiful reddish color, a savory malt profile and nice hop flavor, make this Fest beer quite drinkable. OktoberFish is great with food and especially great with Lederhosen.

    Malts: Weyermans Munich, Dingemanns Aromatic, Dingemanns De-Bittered Black, Two-Row Pale
    Hops: Horizon, Crystal
    Yeast: Dusseldorf Alt
    Original Gravity: 14.3 Plato
    Alcohol by volume: 6.0%
    IBU's: 17
    Formats: 12 oz. bottles, 1/2 kegs, 1/6 kegs, cask-conditioned
    Availability: September 1 to November 1 (if it lasts that long)

    Cheers!
     
    #15 JackHorzempa, Sep 23, 2014
  16. kdb150

    kdb150 Initiate (0) Mar 8, 2012 Pennsylvania

    At an OG of 1.053, oxygenation was probably not an issue. Shaking and stirring a bit is all you really need to give the yeast plenty of oxygen to work with.
     
    #16 kdb150, Sep 23, 2014
  17. meatballj626j

    meatballj626j Initiate (0) May 7, 2009 Georgia

    Thanks. I just wanted to make sure I was reading the question right.

    Not really able to lager for an extended period of time during this time period. Its still getting in the 90's down here and I keep my house fairly warm. This was my first attempt at cold crashing my beer and I was only able to get my fermentation chamber down to 55 over a couple of days and with the help of some frozen jugs of water. I ended up removing some shelves in my fridge and throwing it in there.
     
    #17 meatballj626j, Sep 23, 2014
  18. meatballj626j

    meatballj626j Initiate (0) May 7, 2009 Georgia

    Just to update, I opened one of beers late last week. It came out clear, and it did not taste like an Oktoberfest. Definitely too much crystal, it has a caramel/raisin character to it. Probably can do without the Crystal 80. However it is not bad tasting at all.

    Thanks for help.
     
    #18 meatballj626j, Oct 8, 2014
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