HELP! Ultra high attenuation

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Josephkane, Feb 11, 2016.

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  1. Josephkane

    Josephkane Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee

    Just finished my second all-grain batch, a Cascade-driven APA, and it went really great. OG was 1.054. I fermented with White Labs WLP001 and by day 13 I had 92% attenuation (1.004). My first batch was a North English Brown Ale that went from 1.062 all the way down to 1.002 (yes, really), fermented with WLP005. Both beers were between 68-70F for primary and secondary. Yeast was pitched out of a decanted 1L starter with no stir plate. I went to my LHBS to make sure my hydrometer skills/understanding were correct and my equipment was calibrated, and they assured me it was.

    Is this normal? I can't find any information out there about high attenuation like this. What could I be doing wrong? I know at the end of the day, 1% more alcohol won't hurt anyone, but I'm purposefully trying to go very slow so I gain a good solid understanding of how to manipulate the various processes. Help!
     
  2. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Pooh-Bah (1,856) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    WHat % of the grain bill was made up of simple sugars?
     
  3. Josephkane

    Josephkane Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee

    Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by simple sugars? The grain bill for the APA was 92% pale 8% crystal 40. Does that help?
     
  4. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    How do they taste? Sounds a bit like an infection to me
     
  5. Josephkane

    Josephkane Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee

    Other than a decent alcohol bite from the brown ale, they're both really great. No off-flavors that I nor any of my friends can detect.

    How could I tell if they're infected?
     
  6. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    Much higher than expected levels of carbonation in the bottles are one sign. Off flavors could be sour or vinegary flavors, yogurty tartness, "funky" flavors, buttery, etc. It would depend on what critters got in there.
     
  7. DarrenE

    DarrenE Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2015 Minnesota

    Mash temp? Batch sparge, fly sparge, no sparge? Is your thermometer calibrated? What was temp at the start of mash and at the end of mash? Mash out or no mash out? If no mash out how long until runnings were on the burner?
     
  8. Josephkane

    Josephkane Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee

    Mash temp was 151 at the start, 150 after an hour. I batched sparged with 168F water, no mash out. The first runnings sat for about 30 minutes before the 2nd was added and burner turned on. I use 3 different thermometers (1 digital, 2 analog) all calibrated VERY meticulously.
     
  9. DarrenE

    DarrenE Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2015 Minnesota

    The only explanation I have is that your runnings continued to become more fermentable as they sat after runoff. If you measured the mash after you added the 168F sparge water, I'll bet it would only be upper 150's temp, so that's continuing to become more fermentable as well. You could mash higher, add a mashout infusion, heat the first runnings immediately, and/or sparge with hot enough water to reach 168F in the mash (probably north of 180F sparge water). Some combination of those will make your beer attenuate less no doubt.
     
  10. alanforbeer

    alanforbeer Crusader (455) Jan 29, 2011 South Carolina

    150-151 should yield a highly fermentable wort, and without performing a mash-out the enzymes should continue (to an extent...) to do their thing in the kettle.

    Like @DarrenE said, try mashing higher, etc.

    If you're still getting that kind of attenuation, it could be an infection...
     
  11. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I use basically the same mash method. I don't mash out. The first runnings sit in the kettle for about 20 minutes before I light the flame. The FG of the beer is always near what the software predicts.

    A low single digit FG with the yeast you used doesn't happen under normal circumstances.
     
    GreenKrusty101 likes this.
  12. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    something doesn't seem right here…unfortunately not sure we're gonna solve it, but temperature when taking the hydrometer sample is about 65F and you're reading it at eye level? If that is the case…I third with DarrenE's suggestion.

    edit: just saw the final sentence of your first paragraph…so discount my suggestion...
     
  13. Josephkane

    Josephkane Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee

    @DarrenE Thanks for the advice, I will definitely try all of those things. This might be a dumb question, but doesn't the specific gravity measure the fermentability of the wort? If my pre-boil gravity was 1.042, and the enzymes in the first runnings were continuing to work while I'm sparging, would the gravity rise as well? Thanks again.
     
  14. Josephkane

    Josephkane Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2015 Tennessee

    @alanforbeer Thanks for the reply. If it was an infection, there should be off-flavors and/aromas, correct? I don't claim to have the most accurate or discerning palate, but I've asked multiple people to try them and no one can detect any at all. Is there a type of alcohol-producing bacteria that loves sugar?
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

  16. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    An infection doesn't have to be bacteria. You could have a wild yeast infection. The early stages don't necessarily produce obvious off flavors.
     
  17. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    How did they assure you?

    Have you put your hydrometer in a glass of water to see what it reads?
     
  18. AngryDutchman

    AngryDutchman Zealot (693) Aug 8, 2015 Pennsylvania

    Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Brew big, skip the hops and distill.
     
    chavinparty and MrOH like this.
  19. CarolusP

    CarolusP Zealot (590) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    Not necessarily. Specific gravity is just a measure of the density of a liquid, and in the case of wort, the amount of sugars present. Depending on the source, some sugars are not fermentable (caramelized sugars from caramel malts, for example).
     
  20. DarrenE

    DarrenE Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2015 Minnesota

    I just wanted to clarify that I'm not advocating doing all of these at once. For example if you added a mash out step you definitely wouldn't want to batch sparge with water hotter than 168. I see that CarolusP already answered your gravity question.
     
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