Help w/ Dark Saison Recipe

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by fistfight, Jan 6, 2015.

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  1. fistfight

    fistfight Initiate (0) Jan 13, 2006 Massachusetts

    I'd like to brew a dark saison after drinking a few growlers of Oxbow's Saison Noel, but I have almost no experience brewing darker beer. I can't figure out which of the roast/crystal/carafa malts I would want to use and how much of them. Maybe you can help?

    I'd like the flavors to be a mix of dark fruit/raisin, tobacco, leather (along with whatever the yeasts give me).

    I'm planning on using saison dregs I've built up from Hill Farmstead Arthur and Saison Dupont. The starter smells a little tart, which I would like to maintain in the full beer, so I think I'll need to minimally hop this, ~ 10-15 IBUs. Should I compensate bitterness with dark roasts? The low IBUs also mean I'd want a dry beer, but then I become afraid of astringency from those same dark malts.

    How is this for a recipe:
    OG 1.080
    IBU 10

    50% Pils
    18% Wheat malt
    18% Munich
    6% D180 Candy Syrup
    4% Special B
    3% Carafa I special

    Single infusion mash: 148* for 90 minutes.

    Also, how low do you think this gravity would go? Under 1.010 I hope? Would I need to add a Brett to dry it out further?
     
    #1 fistfight, Jan 6, 2015
  2. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    #2 wspscott, Jan 7, 2015
    fistfight, ChrisMyhre and jmich24 like this.
  3. OldSock

    OldSock Maven (1,418) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    I've done some darker ones as well, cold steeping the dark grains and adding that filtered liquid to the boil. For example: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2012/01/american-farmhouse-currant-dark-saison.html

    A little Carafa Special is a fine way to go too.

    Be careful pushing the OG up on a saison 1.080 to 1.010 is already over 9% ABV.

    Be careful with those HF dregs too, they have wine yeast that will kill any ale yeast in the starter/beer. Especially for a beer this strong I'd go with a big/healthy starter of a known saison strain, and add dregs to give it the funk/acidity.
     
    #3 OldSock, Jan 7, 2015
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  4. fistfight

    fistfight Initiate (0) Jan 13, 2006 Massachusetts

    Thanks! It was actually reading all of @OldSock's different dark saison recipes that left me confused about what kind of crystal/dark grains to use. They were always different, sometimes considerably so. I'm pretty sure you're right about the crystals over roasted malts. I might split my special B with C120 for more complexity.

    Thanks to you, too! Does Hill Farmstead always use wine yeast at bottling? If so, that's a shame that I killed my Dupont yeast. Can I still use the starter I built up for the brett and (I think) bacteria? Yeah, this is a pretty big saison, but I was hoping for a big winter beer that I could drink a little of around early spring and save until next winter. If I were to copy one of your recipes, but without fruit and a bit bigger, is there one you'd recommend?
     
    #4 fistfight, Jan 7, 2015
  5. OldSock

    OldSock Maven (1,418) Apr 3, 2005 District of Columbia

    I heard that they started use wine yeast for bottle conditioning recently. Brett and bacteria are immune to the kill factor, as far as I'm aware. The trick is that you'd have to wait to pitch the starter until after primary is complete. If you pitch the dregs directly with an ale yeast there isn't much issue because the wine yeast will be outcompeted.

    #2 was actually pretty big, but it was also pretty weird. I really liked #4 linked about. It'd be fine without the currants.
     
    #5 OldSock, Jan 7, 2015
    fistfight likes this.
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