help with a Gose

I never brewed one, but I'll speculate. Since you are adding sodium chloride as a flavoring compound, you probably want to keep other mineral additions to a minimum. If I were starting with soft water, I would just plan on adding just enough to get my mash pH right and bring my calcium levels up to the 50 ppm area. Probably would make that addition with calcium chloride; that's mostly an intuition - we sometimes think of sulfate and chloride as balancing each others flavor and this is a beer that should be slanted toward chloride, apparently.

BTW, where did you get the sea salt amount from - I would have no idea where to start with that, but perhaps there are some trusted recipe sources out there. I want to say there was a BYO article on brewing gose within the last 10 years. There's this one and maybe more: https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/2349-gose

 

To make a true Gueuze don't you have to blend a young and an old lambic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gueuze

 

Gose... not Gueuze... two different styles.

One is a lambic, the other is a tart german style wheat beer.

 

Sorry about that, I've heard it pronounced a million ways in the past. One of which was Gose. I started a thread about a year ago about the proper way to pronounce it.

 

Sorry, I got lost in thought. Meant to add, "and if I had hard water, I might consider diluting with DI water." But I'm not sure that is the right move. Again, just speculating.

On the other hand, this one vaguely refers to mineral rich, high saline water: https://byo.com/stories/item/1018-leipziger-gose-style-profile
Perhaps it won't matter, as long as you add that sea salt.

 

It sounds like your doing a sour wort as opposed to sour mash which is fine, although I would increase your mash temps to mid 150's (154-158) and use either Lacto or Pedio to help chew up those more complex sugars left behind that the sach yeast cannot eat. If there is too much acetic acid (due to O2) or it is too sour then I would just cut or blend it with a clean beer. Correct me if I am wrong but some commercial breweries have blended Gose. It is more of a lambic brewing approach but it helps achieve the flavor profile you want.

Other then my comments I think the grist/profile looks good. Use a low AA hops (prefer aged hops) for the hop additions. Especially if you are going to add the lacto or pedio.

Oh, other comment the pH of the beer post ferment should be in the 3.5-3.7 range. If it is lower then it would be extremely sour. Higher then that and it isn't sour enough for style profile, but it all depends on how you want the beer to taste.

 

You should definitely get the sourness your after but you might also get some pretty nasty off flavors. Until recently I lived in AZ and the culture that is on the grain in warm climates can make some pretty terrible flavors. The best approach IMO is to make a "starter" using grain and step it up. The low pH in the "starter" helps to kill bad actors and keeps the good guys. You need to do several step ups this way to get rid of bad bacteria and to grow up a sizable culture, but it also lets you proof the flavor

a more detailed description of the process and the why/hows behind it can be found here

 

When you decant prior to stepping up do you just leave the (spent) grain behind and add new wort to the top of it?

 

I dont believe lacto floculates very well so its probably best to put it all in. That is what Jeff Mello from Bootleg Biology had suggested for me. We were discussing doing a starter for a lacto culture but I don't see a big difference since you are focusing on lacto for a gose.

 

I wouldn't decant just put the whole starter in if you are going that route. Starters are a great way to reduce risk of unwanted phenols, acetic acid, or unwanted flavors. What you have to remember is if those flavors are there they can be controlled all though tough to do. If it is too vinegary (acetic acid) then pitch Brett as it reduce it. Lacto if used correctly and at right temp can result in beautiful complex beers. Just depends on how much time and patience you have and want to put into the beer.

 

I use the word "controlled" VERY loosely. Lol

 

"ghose"
vs
"choo-zeh" (Hebrew/Arabic "ch")

 

I disagree with the last bit of this statement, in wild cultures its generally hot vomit/garbage flavors that dominate early and these are easily dealt with (low pH kills those bacteria), decanting and step ups take care of the rest. An over the top phenolic culture you dump, while Ive yet to experience acetic production in my starters, if I did the culture would also likely be dumped (Acetic bacteria take a bit longer to get going and both ethanol and oxygen)

You also need to remember that its not just lacto, even after the step ups there are multitudes of other bugs in there, even including yeast!

Its true that pure culture lacto is terrible at flocc'ing, even cold crashing does little. But stepping up a wild starter as I describe in that link, there is no issue with decanting, you'll still get a very sour beer. Decanting also helps to get rid of the small amounts of nasty compounds (butyrate, etc) that will ruin a beer even in small quantities.

Yes, Im really just trying to make room for the next bit of wort to be added AND to get rid of some of the nasty compounds

 

In my experience if you reduce head space and purge with CO2 those vomit flavors arent there or minimal. Don't disagree that decanting is good and helps. If he wants to take the time and patience to brew the beer then yes decant. If he doesn't then control the oxygen exposure and purge with CO2 in the headspace to reduce those vomit nasties

 

purging with Co2 doesnt stop butyric or enteric bacteria from growing and producing off flavors (many are anaerobes), its all about the culture and conditions you have. A low pH in a sequential starter ensures this, Co2 headspace does not. Ive also found that people from cooler climates (eg Massachusetts) dont have the same number of issues as those from warmer climes (eg TX, CA, AZ, NM, FL, etc....), without a doubt this is due to the differing environmental conditions that favor one type of bacteria over another.

No matter where you are though, a stepped up wild culture will limit your exposure to both bad bacteria (butyric,enteric,etc) and off flavors from phenolic/estery yeasts that you dont like by allowing you to select for the good strains (low pH and tasting)

Think of it this way, I am spending X hours (5-8 if AG) on a brew, plus several months of fermentation time on a sour beer (3-18mos). Why wouldnt I spend a little bit of time stepping up a culture (6-7days) to ensure that a beer that could potentially take 3-18mos turns out well. IMO a little bit of due diligence at the start goes a long way

 

Goes-Uh- is the proper way to say it.

 

I use a softer water for my Berliners.. I would probably tread the same way with the Gose.

Mineral rich, yes, because you are adding salt to the beer. I'd also use some CaCl2 in treating the water.