Help with a peach saison

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by mclaughlindw4, Aug 31, 2014.

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  1. mclaughlindw4

    mclaughlindw4 Initiate (0) Jul 2, 2009 Maine

    I posted this on another forum but got zero replies so I thought I'd try here...

    I've been reading up a lot on this and could use some feedback as I am still pretty new. I have 2 3/4 pound of very ripe Saturn Peaches all cut up and frozen and just picked up another 4 pounds or so of regular peaches from the farmers market...

    OG: 1.054
    FG: ???
    IBU: 20.8

    4.5 Gallon Batch:
    7 Pounds Belgian Two Row
    2 Pounds Pale Wheat Malt
    0.2 Pounds Acid Malt

    90 minute boil:
    0.5 oz Saaz @ 60
    0.5 oz Saaz @30
    0.5 oz Saaz, irish moss, (Cracked black pepper or grains of paradise??) @15
    0.5 oz Saaz @5

    Wyeast 3711 with starter

    Mash for one hour at 150, ferment at 67 for a week then bump it up to room temp (low 70's). I also have the following malts but not sure if I should use any of them: Special B, Carapils, 60L Crystal, and some dark candi sugar.

    I'm not using sugar and am not mashing too low because I read that the peaches will dry out the beer more when I add them to secondary. I'm wondering if I am using too many late addition hops or not. My water is also super soft and hardly anything in it so I'm gonna add calcium chloride and gypsum to arrive at the following numbers:
    Ca: 62.2
    Sulfate: 76.7
    Chloride: 60
    Na, Mg, Bicarbonate are basically nothing.

    I'm not sure how I'm gonna do the peaches. Mostly just want help with the recipe right now. I'm thinking of adding them to half the batch and then diluting if it's too peachy. I've read recipes where people use 1 pound per gallon and say it's too much and others that say they used 2 pounds per gallon and they can't taste any peach. This leads me to believe that it all must depends on the type of the peach and probably how ripe they are.
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have made a lot of Saison beers but never a fruited Saison.

    Some comments:

    Wyeast 3711 is a very highly attenuating yeast. It is a good thing IMO to not add any sugar to your list of fermentables.

    Your grain list looks good to me. I personally use Pilsner malt as my base malt but Belgian Two Row should work too. I would not recommend using any of the other malts or sugar that you listed.

    “I'm wondering if I am using too many late addition hops or not.” I use two 0.5 ounce additions in my Saison beers (Styrian Goldings for 15 minutes and end of boil). I think your three Saaz additions look OK.

    As to the peach addition, the challenge of fruit amounts is challenging since it is highly dependent on the qualities of the fruit. A baking analogy is how much sugar to add to fruit pies given the variability of fruit?

    Below is from a BYO article:

    “The amount of fruit to add to a beer depends on many variables — the type of fruit, the amount of fruit flavor desired, the beer style and many others — and so there is no simple answer to this question. As a first approximation, add one half of a pound of fruit per gallon of beer for strongly flavored fruits such as raspberries. So, for a five-gallon batch of raspberry wheat, you would add 2.5 pounds of raspberries. For lighter-flavored fruits, such as cherries or peaches, you may need to add up to two pounds of fruit per gallon of beer. Your peach ale would thus need 10 pounds of fruit. Processed fruit is usually more concentrated, so you need to add less of it. Sometimes, the label will give some indication of how concentrated the fruit is. If not, add a small amount of processed fruit to a finished beer and estimate an appropriate rate of addition.”

    Maybe split the difference and add 1.5 lbs. of peaches per gallon of beer?
    https://byo.com/stories/item/679-fruit-brew-part-2-techniques
    Good luck with your Peach Saison; it reads tasty!

    Cheers!

    P.S. Here is the link to the BYO article: https://byo.com/stories/item/679-fruit-brew-part-2-techniques
     
    #2 JackHorzempa, Aug 31, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  3. mclaughlindw4

    mclaughlindw4 Initiate (0) Jul 2, 2009 Maine

    Thanks for the feedback. I wonder if I should even mash a little higher than 150. My last saison I made with 3711 landed at 1.002 with a 148 degree mash and candi sugar. With that yeast though I wonder if it really cares, it would probably just eat everything either way. I would have liked to try a different saison yeast but it was all LHBS had except for a brett blend.

    And I meant to say pilsner, I'm pretty sure that's what I bought. Yeah the saturn peaches are super flavorful and were very ripe so I'm hoping it will work out. The regular ones I bought at farmers market were a little underripe though.

    To get it right on I was thinking of just putting half the batch on the peaches and then diluting it with the other half if it's too peachy. This way I could pour a small amount of peached and unpeached and really fine tune it with samples before I dilute. I'll post a follow up with my results as there are currently only a handful of peach saison threads going around right now.
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “Thanks for the feedback. I wonder if I should even mash a little higher than 150. My last saison I made with 3711 landed at 1.002 with a 148 degree mash and candi sugar. With that yeast though I wonder if it really cares, it would probably just eat everything either way.” I suspect you might be right here. There seems to be very little that 3711 won’t ‘eat’.

    “I would have liked to try a different saison yeast but it was all LHBS had except for a brett blend.” As I have already mentioned I have never brewed a fruited Saison but I highly suspect that 3711 is a good choice for you Peach Saison. Every batch of Saiosn that I brewed with 3711 has been somewhat one dimensional: mostly spicy (phenols) with little fruit (esters). I suspect that 3711 will let the peach flavors ‘shine’ in this beer.

    “I'll post a follow up with my results as there are currently only a handful of peach saison threads going around right now.” Please do!

    Cheers!
     
  5. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm not sure if mashing higher will help, but you can try, and you can also try to mash shorter as well.

    3711 will be fine, but a fruity, or even a blend with some brett could lend more citrusy fruit along with the peaches.

    I'd shoot for the 1 pound a gallon myself. You don't want peach juice, but just a layer in the saison.
     
  6. mclaughlindw4

    mclaughlindw4 Initiate (0) Jul 2, 2009 Maine

    An update on my peach saison. I ended up mashing at 152 or so. FG was 1.002. Next time if I decide to use 3711 for this I will mash really high and maybe add some crystal or something. Or just use a different yeast.

    Anyways, I left the beer in primary for a little over 3 weeks. It tasted very light, slightly peppery, and a little too bitter. I fermented at about 67-68. I think I should've have gone a touch higher to get a little more flavor out of the yeast.

    I racked 2.5 gallons into a bucket with 2.5 pounds of saturn peaches and 3.5 pounds regular peaches that had been cut up, frozen, thawed in fridge, placed in bag, and mashed up with a potato masher. It has been four days. The flavor has changed, no longer bitter at all. It smells and tastes a little peachy. More like a peach wine crossed with a saison (or what I think a peach wine would taste like). I'm gonna bottle it tomorrow or the next day and aim for a fairly high carbonation. I'm thinking of doing half brown sugar and half regular sugar. I think it might be pretty good once its carbed up!

    The other 2.5 gallons I savesd to dilute in case it was too peachy, instead I racked a gallon onto last years wild blueberries and left a gallon as is. I'll be adding brett to both of these from my last brett saison bottle dregs (brett originally came from orval bottles).
     
  7. deaddear

    deaddear Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2014 Pennsylvania

    How'd this turn out?
     
  8. lackenhauser

    lackenhauser Pooh-Bah (2,721) Dec 10, 2002 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Id cheat a bit and maybe add peach schnapps. Peach is a hard fruit to come thru especially with the saison yeast. I did a peach weiss beer and it was almost nothing after peeling and adding like 7 pounds of fruit.
     
  9. deaddear

    deaddear Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2014 Pennsylvania

    Thanks, have been reading that. Sounds like apricots are the way to go if you don't want to "cheat," too hard to get peach flavors to come through in the final product? Gonna try this soon, thinking I'll just add some peach nectar before bottling. Powell & Mahoney Bellini mix sounds like it might work well too.
     
  10. Tebuken

    Tebuken Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2009 Argentina


    Just go to 156 F and make a thick mash 1qt/lb
     
  11. Chris-B

    Chris-B Initiate (164) Feb 29, 2012 Washington

    Hey. Saisons are supposed to be dry. The FG of a Saison according to BJCP guidelines is 1.002 - 1.008.

    Also, Saisons are not supposed to have a heavy fruit presence because it would cover up the Belgiany flavors of the yeast.

    I would mash at 147° for 90 minutes. And add about 4lbs of sanitized peach mash or peach puree in the secondary after you've gotten your FG down to around 1.008 or 1.010.

    Just my two cents.
     
  12. LaGuarns

    LaGuarns Crusader (478) Mar 23, 2016 Ohio

    I do a peach saison yearly, and have good success with approximately 1lbs of peaches per gallon. I'll cut them, freeze them overnight, and rack onto them when you transfer to secondary. From there, just taste periodically to get the desired amount of peach flavor. Have yet to "overdo" the peach flavor with this method, and you can get a nice peach presence in the background after 3-5 days.
     
  13. Beerfiend1

    Beerfiend1 Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2016 Virginia

    How do you all usually sanitize peaches and other fruit? Vodka?
     
  14. LaGuarns

    LaGuarns Crusader (478) Mar 23, 2016 Ohio

    I will just cut and freeze them overnight, then put them in the secondary vessel using sanitized equipment. I have really good success going this route.
     
  15. Beerfiend1

    Beerfiend1 Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2016 Virginia

    Fruit is a great breeding ground and collection vessel for wild yeasts. I'm sure you don't need to worry all the time, but I pitched some dregs with Sacc, Brett, Lacto and some bugs from JK, rare barrel, and a local saison brett into this last batch, so I'd prefer to not keeping adding to it
     
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    <inexplicably getting sucked into a zombie thread>
    Many, many people have made saisons with fruit. Sometimes with lots of it. IMO saison is one of the better platforms for fruit. But if it's the BJCP style guidelines you're concerned about, fruited saisons can be perfectly to style. Style 29A: Fruit Beer.

    OTOH, this guy wouldn't cotton to that.
     
    donspublic likes this.
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