Help with brewery system size (in PA)

Discussion in 'New England' started by beerandrecords, Jul 19, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. beerandrecords

    beerandrecords Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Hey there,

    I'm looking for advice on what size system I might need for a concept I'm working on. I'm in retail but a move to PA may very well be in order for me and my family next year. I've been playing around with the idea of adding a taproom to my retail store and if I move and decide to go back into the retail segment I'm currently in I'm thinking of giving it a go.

    PA Liquor Licenses are almost impossible to obtain, they're on a quota system by county and you have to buy or bid on one, assuming there's even one available for the location you're in. In desirable locations I've seen them cost hundreds of thousands of dollars! Brewery licenses, however, are not under this quota system and are obtained straight through the Liquor Control folks for reasonable amounts. The brewery license allows for there to be 3 total locations for the brewers products to be sold and served and also for much less stringent requirements on food being served. This license would fit my needs nicely as I don't want a full kitchen and it gives room for expansion if I'm so lucky. And I can serve other PA alcohol producer's products as long as they don't exceed 50% of my total alcohol sales.

    Sadly I have little to no brewing experience. I've done some home brewing but know little beyond kettles and plastic pails. I've got a lot to learn and I'm working on that.

    Currently I'm in the concept phase but would like to start getting a sense of equipment costs. I do not plan to put my brew out into distribution, only serving it at my taproom(s). I fully intend to carry other PA beers, taking pressure off my production, or lack thereof. I'm thinking I'd like to have 3 of my own beers on tap, 2 permanent and 1 revolving seasonal offering or such. Maybe 3 other brews as well from other breweries and some cans/bottles as well.

    So, given these vague parameters can any one offer advice on a size system? How much beer can you produce with a 2bbl system? 3bbl? 5bbl? I'm hoping I could keep a couple of retail locations flush with my own brews on a 2bbl system. Is that possible?

    Any help is truly appreciated!
     
    #1 beerandrecords, Jul 19, 2017
  2. thebeers

    thebeers Grand Pooh-Bah (5,837) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'll be no help on your questions, but curious as to what county you'll be in?
     
    #2 thebeers, Jul 19, 2017
    HoppingMadMonk and beerandrecords like this.
  3. beerandrecords

    beerandrecords Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2017 Pennsylvania

    I'm thinking Chester County initially.
     
    #3 beerandrecords, Jul 19, 2017
    thebeers likes this.
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The size you decide upon will heavily depend on:
    • How frequently you are willing to brew. A small system will yield sufficient beer if you are willing to brew multiple shifts per day.
    • How many and size of fermentors
    I would suggest that you contact a brewing consultant such as Scott Morrison. He helped put together the brewing system of the recently opened Root Down brewery located in Phoenixiville (which happens to be in Chester County).

    http://www.rootdownbrewing.com/

    Cheers!
     
    #4 JackHorzempa, Jul 19, 2017
    beerandrecords likes this.
  5. beerandrecords

    beerandrecords Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Thanks for the info! I've been through Phoenixville but haven't hit Root Down yet. Will make it a priority!

    Any idea how to contact Scott?
     
    #5 beerandrecords, Jul 19, 2017
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I do not have contact information. When you visit Root Down you should ask them.

    Cheers!
     
    #6 JackHorzempa, Jul 19, 2017
    beerandrecords likes this.
  7. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,276) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    As Jack pointed out there are a lot of variables. A bbl is 31 gallons, so that should help you break that down into pints and so forth.

    The number of different beers you want to brew makes a difference because that changes the number of fermenters you'll need.

    For myself I'd never do anything smaller than a 15 bbl system unless I was forced into a 10 bbl system by size constraints - and part of the reason for that is that a 15 bbl system doesn't really cost that much more than a 10 bbl system. You're paying for the manufacture, all of the welds, and the valves and so forth - adding a bit more stainless doesn't make it that much higher in cost and you've just added a lot more production per 8 hour shift. Keep that in mind while you're thinking about a small system.

    If you're interested you can drop me a note and I can give you more assistance.
     
    #7 NeroFiddled, Jul 19, 2017
    makalarch and beerandrecords like this.
  8. pinyin

    pinyin Savant (1,119) Sep 19, 2013 New York

    #8 pinyin, Jul 20, 2017
    beerandrecords likes this.
  9. moonbrews

    moonbrews Initiate (0) Aug 11, 2010 Virginia

    Take this question to probrewer.com. there are lots of people on here that know their shit, but it's mostly for beer consumers. Probrewer is for people in the industry
     
    #9 moonbrews, Jul 20, 2017
    beerandrecords likes this.
  10. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Some advice: either go to brewing school, or hire someone with professional brewing experience. The places around here that started with only home brew experience have had a steep learning curve or have ended up hiring people with experience.

    Plan your location wisely, there is a lot of competition in SEPA.

    You may want to rethink the amount of guest taps, if the limit is 50% of your own stuff. It's basically a standard now for PA breweries to offer PA hard cider and/or wine and spirits for the non-beer drinkers in groups. So that should factor into your calculation.
     
    #10 jmdrpi, Jul 20, 2017
    beerandrecords likes this.
  11. makalarch

    makalarch Initiate (0) Jul 31, 2011 Pennsylvania

    I echo a lot of these sentiments, mainly to try and build a minimum of 10bbl brewhouse and hiring someone with experience. Those two items right there I think could save you a lot of time and money from the get go.
     
    #11 makalarch, Jul 20, 2017
    beerandrecords likes this.
  12. beerandrecords

    beerandrecords Initiate (0) Jun 28, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Thanks for the input. The plan was always to hire a brewer, although I fully intend to know as much as I can. The basic premise of the business is a marriage of the brewery and retail, creating a relatively unique experience. Both complimenting each other but neither acting as the primary business. I've got a long way to go figuring this all out, certainly would've been more simple if could have just gotten a liquor license....
     
    #12 beerandrecords, Jul 21, 2017
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.