Help with finished remote dispensing build

Discussion in 'Home Bar' started by alexphil3025, Jul 26, 2016.

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  1. alexphil3025

    alexphil3025 Initiate (0) Jul 26, 2016

    Well after almost a year I have completed my keezer with remote dispensing build. Ran my first sixtel, Harpoon Camp Wanna Mango, and ran into some issues. I ran the keg at 11-12 PSI and had issues with the first few pours being foamy. I just dealt with it and kicked the keg pretty quick. The problem I believe is my system is not balanced properly. When pouring, the beer seems to flow out of the tap at different rates? I'm not sure if I just need to mess with the pressure to dial it in or add line? Just picked up two more kegs, Kona Big Wave and Cape May Brewery The Bog Shandy, and I don't want to ruin these kegs before I brew my own.

    Here's what my system consists of:

    Freezer converted to Keezer, Set at 41 Degrees

    15 ft Micro Matic Trunk Line, GenX Tubing 1/4ID 2 Product and 2 Glycol, .30 restriction value.

    Additional 10ft of 1/4ID Vinyl Tubing coiled up inside keezer

    Pond Pump cycling glycol from keezer to shanks in trunk line


    I'm a beginner to all this and have read many threads here to get me set up to where I'm at now. I have tried the online calculators to balance my system but with the GenX tubing values I think I'm off? What am I doing wrong! I have attached pictures with measurements of my system.

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  2. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    What is your beer temp? What is the glycol temp?
     
  3. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Definitely not properly balanced. We can rebuild this though. For starters, the extra tubing coil is not helping things.

    When you get erratic flow it is an indication of excessive restriction.
    • We will need to get glycol on to the shanks.
    • We want to see about 5 feet of 3/16" vinyl choker. The length of 1/4" GenX barrier tubing is nothing and can almost be removed from the equation.
    • The choker requires contact with the glycol as far as possible. If the glycol is not in contact with the beer line it is useless. It won't cool the air in the box and will instead cause an endless rain of condensation.
    • You only have about a 2' rise, or 1 psi of gravity resistance. The rise is offset by the fall. Again that is almost inconsequential.
    • Glycol needs to be set below the serving temperature. Usually around 28 or 29 degrees F. That is why a separate glycol chiller is used. Otherwise we'd set up all remote systems like yours and just use the ambient walk in cooler air for chilling the trunk line. Your set up is workable but it won't work perfectly.
    • Temp down to 38, that is required. 41 in this case is just a bit too warm. Really.
    • Also the chest freezer is quite a bit warmer at the top then the bottom, so think about a circulating fan. Go ahead and place a glass of water at the bottom and top and compare temps.
    Post back and we can keep going.
    Cheers.

    PS
    Glycol systems are an order of magnitude more complex than a direct draw kegerators. There are a dozen things that can go wrong, and each component relies on another component. I don't recommend anyone kit bash a remote glycol system. The glass pitcher is your best solution often.
     
    Seacoastbrewer, CADETS3 and DougC123 like this.
  4. DougC123

    DougC123 Savant (1,186) Aug 21, 2012 Connecticut

    Now you've got pro help! Actually you can see the breakout in the picture of the shanks. I can almost convince myself I can see it in the high spots in the picture of the open keezer also.
     
  5. alexphil3025

    alexphil3025 Initiate (0) Jul 26, 2016

    Thanks guys! I knew I had to have messed up somewhere. Wish I had the space to put the keezer directly under the wall with the taps.

    I will try ditching the 1/4" Vinyl and adding 5ft of 3/16" Vinyl. The GenX tubing is pretty stiff, so I might just wrap some vinyl tubing around the shanks and connect it to the glycol loop? Any other ways to get it to the shanks more effectively for now? I will try to wire up a computer fan to circulate the air in keezer also.

    I guess my next major project will be a separate small freezer for the glycol!
     
  6. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Here is what you do...
    I would carefully slice open the insulation to reveal the two glycol lines and the two beer lines. Cut off about 4' of the barrier tubing. Leave the glycol as is. Use a 1/4" by 1/4" splicer, chrome or stainless steel preferably. That will fit nicely on the poly tube with a bit of heat. The pvc choker is much more flexible and will stretch a bit for the 1/4" barb. Connect the 5' of choker to the poly beer line. Wrap it up with foil tape. Then carefully mate the foam and run tape length way up the seam, followed by a spiral wrap. There is special tape for this but Gorilla Tape works well too. Hint, wrap it up after you have ran beer and checked for leaks.

    Then get copper refrigeration tubing. I believe 1/4" will fit nicely into the 5/8" glycol lines. Clamp about 6" into the glycol line, either side. Don't need any splicer, barb fitting etc., just slide it in and clamp it. Wrap the copper line around each shank, leave yourself a bit extra and then slide the out end into the glycol return line. You don't need to go nuts with the copper line, just wrap each shank once, carefully. You'll need a few feet of copper tube. Bring a 1" piece of the glycol line to the hardware store to test fit the copper. The copper OD goes inside the poly ID and it fits tightly.

    Place any choker on the glycol and copper tubing. You can use zip ties to hold it in place, just tight enough. Too much will pinch the line. You can spiral the line, whatever. It won't be pretty. It should be insulated with foam too, as best as possible.

    Ok, now about that glycol temp... Good luck. Kit bashing a glycol chiller is not as easy as it appears. The absolute cheapest glycol chiller is the probably the Kalinka, and sells for about $700. So know that it's not as simple a device as you might think. You may have better luck running copper directly against the freezer walls so the fluid is in direct contact with copper touching the cooling lines in the freezer.

    Fan. Mount it where it will get cold up to the warm area. Now is a good time to really be sure the lid seals well, or you're just blowing cold air into a closet.
    We have had good success with these
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009OWVUJ0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    [​IMG]
    Enough air movement, small, quiet, reliable.

    So there you have it. For what it is worth, my company has constructed a few draft coffee and beer systems similar to this, but we do not use glycol due to the cost. It is the only time we favor an air cooled system design over glycol, and it requires a fairly direct line from cooler to faucet and back. Also creates a lot of condensation problems, but it works. PVC conduit and plenty of insulation.

    Let us know if you have any questions.
    Cheers.
     
    Redrover, IceAce and DougC123 like this.
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