Help with Getting back into it

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Jaguar10301, Mar 20, 2017.

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  1. Jaguar10301

    Jaguar10301 Crusader (423) Mar 1, 2010 Maine

    So due to a myriad of issues I haven't brewed in almost 5 years. I know I know, there is no excuse. I am finally settled in a new location and trying to determine my best conditions for where to ferment etc... etc... Anyways I need to just do it. So I was looking for some advice. I would really like to brew my Belgian Wit again for this summer (it took 1st in a little comp for 16a, older BJCP guidelines). But I was thinking of perhaps souring it and trying a different fruit. I've brewed it without any fruit and also with strawberries before. I used to brew 20 gallons of beer a month but my waist and schedule and life preclude that now but I was thinking I could do a 10 gallon batch and make 5 normal or perhaps with fruit and then the other 5 perhaps sour. I have never soured before so I would like some help on where to start with that.

    This is the recipe for my Belgian Wit

    5 Gallon batch

    5lb 8 oz White Wheat
    2lb 2 row
    1lb flaked oats
    2.1 oz Acidulated malt

    .5 oz Northern Brewer @ 90 min
    .25 oz Saaz @ 30 min
    .25 oz Saaz @ 5 min
    .5 oz Chamomile @ 5 min
    .25 oz ground coriander seeds @ 5 min
    1 oz Zest mix (lemon, grapefruit, and a few kinds of oranges)

    Wyeast 3944

    Anyways, thoughts on souring it, what fruit to use? I would like to get a sour beer going for the summer, so a quick sour would be nice for that but I would also like to get into a longer term sour as well.

    I also love Berliner Weisse and would love a good recipe to give it a try as well.

    anyways, thoughts and help to get back into brewing!

    I also am going to have to brew a nice IPA, maybe a Session Ale, and my Hefe. About time to put down a lager too (no chest freezers set up yet, I used to have a great setup, beer fridge for yeast and hops, chest keezer with 3 taps, and a chest freezer for ferm temp control and lagering).
     
  2. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    For pretty quick souring, lactobacillus is the way to go. I've used two different strains of lacto, and each time I used the same method: after the boil, cool the wort to ~95°F, rack to the fermenter, pitch the lacto, hold at a steady temp for ~12 hours, then cool to an appropriate temperature for the yeast and pitch.

    The first time I used Wyeast 5335 (with a starter) for the lacto and US05 for the yeast. It worked great. I fermented at about 70°F and it was nice and fruity and sour. I don't have the recipe in front of me, but there was a very modest amount of hops in that beer.

    The second time I used GoodBelly (no starter) for the lacto and US05 for the yeast. It didn't get noticeably sour, either because I didn't have enough lacto cells or (more likely) because my IBUs were too high. The IBUs were not very high (they were roughly the same as the first recipe), but I think the lacto in GoodBelly is extremely hop-sensitive.

    The third time I used GoodBelly (with a starter) for the lacto and Yeast Bay's Sigmund's Voss Kveik for the yeast. Because kveik can ferment fine in the 90s, I didn't cool the wort down before pitching it, but I still gave the lacto a head start. That one turned out great. There were no hops whatsoever in the beer.

    All of those beers were goses, but if you look at a gose recipe, it is pretty similar to a wit recipe, apart from the salt and the orange peel. So I would think my experience would translate pretty well to wits.

    By the way, for my lacto starter I followed these recommendations. I don't think you need very much yeast nutrient, though, maybe 1/8 tsp per liter or something like that. [Edited to add: To be clear, I used "medium #7" because it seemed to have the best results. I was careful not to pitch the chalk sediment into my beer.]
     
  3. Jaguar10301

    Jaguar10301 Crusader (423) Mar 1, 2010 Maine

    Thanks @minderbender for the response!

    So basically you give the Lacto a head start on the other yeast with a 12 hour hotter fermentation and then they ferment together until it ferments out? You mention holding it at a steady temp for those 12 hours and you pitched at 95. Do you mean I have to hold it at 95 for 12 hours? How do I prevent the temp from dropping over those 12 hours? I've done some colder fermentation control but never holding it at a higher temperature.

    Do you need to leave it longer to age at all or is it done once you reach the target FG?

    Do you think I should reduce the hops in my recipe to allow for more souring?

    Thanks again
     
  4. Jaguar10301

    Jaguar10301 Crusader (423) Mar 1, 2010 Maine

    Another question. I'm reading about the problem with aluminium and kettle souring with it. I have a 15 gallon aluminum kettle that has always been good to me for brewing. Is this something to worry about? Is there another method I could use?
     
  5. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    I don't think it's actually crucial to hold the wort at 95°F after pitching the lacto. This is especially true for GoodBelly, which is lacto plantarum, which allegedly does fine at room temperature. However, I would maybe wrap a towel or something around the fermenter to preserve as much heat as possible.

    Once the beer has reached FG, it should be good to go. Lacto is not like brett, it won't reduce gravity much even by itself, and certainly not after the yeast is done.

    As for kettle souring in an aluminum kettle, all I can say is that I wouldn't do it.
     
  6. Jaguar10301

    Jaguar10301 Crusader (423) Mar 1, 2010 Maine

    Thanks once again!

    So as I said I only have the aluminum kettle. Can I rack to my fermenter sour it there and would it be safe to return it to the AL kettle just for a boil to kill the Lacto and then hop/ ferment with my main yeast?
     
  7. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    I personally would not do that. The contact between the aluminum and the acidic beer would be reduced, but it wouldn't be eliminated. In this situation, I would simply co-ferment the beer with lacto and yeast in the fermenter. It's true that you will then need to be careful about sanitizing your equipment (fermenter, tubing) because lacto could otherwise infect your future beers, but in truth I think this threat is exaggerated (with respect to lacto). Some people set aside a "sour" set of equipment for this reason, though.
     
  8. Jaguar10301

    Jaguar10301 Crusader (423) Mar 1, 2010 Maine

    Understood, I always was skeptical of the health reasons for SS but this is actually a real reason I might switch and invest :stuck_out_tongue:

    Hmmm so I should go through my boil rack to my fermenter pitch the lacto at a high temp and let that go over a certain time period, 12 hours? and then cool to my yeast temp and pitch my main yeast?

    I have enough fermenters to dedicate one to sours, I probably need a new racking cane anyways...
     
  9. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    The process you outlined (rack to fermenter, pitch lacto in the mid-90s, later cool and pitch yeast at normal temperature) is one that has worked well for me. I am not 100% sure that pre-pitching the lacto is really necessary, but I don't think it can hurt. Once the yeast has fermented the beer, you can treat it as you would any other beer (being mindful that it still has live bacteria in it, which may effect the equipment you choose to use when you rack it).

    For the record, I am not taking a position on the health effects of aluminum, which many claim are overblown. Putting health considerations to one side, I am worried about (A) picking up a metallic taste, and (B) damage to the kettle, in that order. A stainless kettle would be more suitable for kettle-souring, but I think you will find that kettle souring has few advantages over co-fermentation. The main reason you might want to kettle sour is so that you can boil with a significant amount of hops, but is that a flavor combination that appeals to you? If so, a stainless steel kettle may be a good investment.
     
  10. Jaguar10301

    Jaguar10301 Crusader (423) Mar 1, 2010 Maine

    I understand your point about the AL and it was my concern, I have never bought into the health concerns, hence my use of it.

    If pitching alongside works just as well and can be done for quick souring, what is all the hype about kettle souring? I guess adding the hops, which I don't even know that I care about. I'll set up some equipment that I can use for souring, just in case and be sure to sanitize well
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    For one thing, souring before the boil eliminates any possible concerns about getting a persistent lacto infection in your fermentation equipment.

    I (pre-boil) sour in a keg. And that keg is dedicated to that purpose.
     
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