help with hefeweizen and possibly honey

You're doing doing an extract batch. Partial mash means you're converting starches in grains to sugars. You'll do this if you add base malt to your steeping grains. You would also have some grain in your bag that needs converted, like flaked wheat (common in wheat beers).

One thing I should mention about honey is that t's actually very fermentable and you'll actually dry your beer out unless you use A LOT of honey. There is a honey malt that you could use with great success. You can also use dried orange in the boil, or zest your own for the boil. You'll need the outside of the orange, and don't get any of the white pith in there. It's nasty.

You can also look into orange extract which can be added up to the point of the bottom of your glass before you pour your homebrew. Very forgiving and flexible in terms of flavor.

Feel free to write back on thoughts about honey and possibly altering your recipe.

 

You would replace extract with honey. Honey, at BEST, will provide little flavor, and normally will leave no honey flavor behind. While I've never done this, I've read adding honey to the primary near the end of fermentation will give you the most honey flavor/aroma. I love honey malt, but Honey malt will not give you honey flavor. It is a crystal malt. It will give you a sweet/nutty/pleasant aroma and sweetness, but it will not have a honey flavor.

 

I disagree. It depends on what kind of honey you use, how much you use, and when you add it. What will not be left behind is any sweetness from the sugars, because they will all be fermented. Besides sugars though, there are over 100 other compounds in honey, and that's where honey flavor/aroma come from.

This is true. On the other end of the process, adding honey to the boil is the worst way to preserve flavor/aroma.

 

What are the grains? That will tell you if you can just steep them, or if you need to mash them along with a base malt, which is a slightly more complicated process. A very traditional hefe can be made with extract and no grains at all.

 

Yes, the sugars in honey are virtually 100% fermentable. And substituting honey for extract will indeed dry out the beer. But using a A LOT of honey will not prevent this drying. It will make it worse. One way to combat the drying effect is to add some maltodextrin or carapils. I like maltodextrin for this, because it is virtually 0% fermentable, so the math is easy.

 

For a third batch I would recommend a simple German Hefeweizen vs. making things so complicated. Assuming you are an extract brewer, your ingredient list for a Hefeweizen is Wheat Malt extract, 1 ounce of hops for bittering (e.g., German Hallertauer), and Hefeweizen yeast (WY3068 or WLP300).

As others have mentioned, honey will typically add little flavor. You could add honey at the end of primary fermentation and depending on the type of honey used you might be able to distinguish some honey flavors but then again you might not. The only think you can count on the honey is to dry out the beer. I personally would not use honey in making a Hefeweizen.

The yeast strain will provide pleasant banana and clove flavors; ferment around 68-70°F. I am unsure how well adding orange and/or lemon zest will meld with the banana/clove flavors but I suppose you could add some zest towards the end of boil. I have no idea on what amount to add; I have never added orange/lemon zest to my Hefeweizen beers.

Cheers!

 

I agree with Jack above. I think 68° is a nice happy medium. I've done 64 and I've done as high as 72 (when we wanted more banana - though some will argue this is too high) with Wyeast 3068. The one at 64 was actually a dunkel. I thought both came out good, but I preferred the one at 72 and wish the dunkel had had more banana easters.

On orange or lemon - you could actually just serve the finished beer with a slice of either. This way you can see what your beer would be like without said flavors. I found an orange slice in my hefe actually added a nice aroma and I do see people add lemons to German wheats beers. On a side note, those damn fruit also usually killed the beer head though.

 

“I found an orange slice in my hefe actually added a nice aroma and I do see people add lemons to German wheats beers. On a side note, those damn fruit also usually killed the beer head though.”

An option beyond actually adding the fruit (orange or lemon) to the beer is to simply let the slice hang on the side of the glass as a garnish (like you see in Blue Moon commercials). The presence of the orange or lemon slice on the side of the glass will add aromas as you sip your beer. Your brain will take in the orange/lemon slice aroma and associate it with the other beer flavors (e.g., the banana/clove in the beer itself). In this way you can ‘experiment’ and see whether you think orange/lemon flavors (from the slice aroma) is complementary with the beer you are drinking.

Whenever I am provided a lemon slice with a Hefeweizen that I order at a bar I promptly dispose of it in the trash (or somewhere away from the beer). I am not a fruit guy.

Cheers!

 

Ditto. If the germans had meant for hefes to be served with fruit, they would have done so. Mostly I just avoid bars that would serve it that way, but it happens.

 

When you add honey near the end of primary, what do you do to ensure it dissolves?

I have made this same point a dozen or so times in the past. However, I recently brewed a Belgian pale ale with 8 oz of honey malt and had something magical happen, and it seems more like honey too me than anything I ever made with honey malt in the past. My mileage does vary!

 

6# Bavarian Wheat DME, 1 oz Hersbrucker or Hallertau or another German low AA hop, WB-06 or any Hefe liquid yeast. 60 minute boil. Great Hefe and really easy recipe and brew day!!! Now the short brew day w/out the need of steeping grains!

 

Oxidation perhaps? Just a thought.

 

Hadn't thought about it, but this was the keg that leaked, so I can't dimiss the idea.

 

I tend to agree with what Jack says above: I think it's good to keep things simple at first, and to brew a straightforward example of a style before trying to tweak it.

But assuming you're going to go forward with a higher ABV, honey flavored beer, I might suggest using cane sugar to dry the beer out, a little dextrin so it doesn't get too thin, and some honey malt for the honey flavor. One thing about honey is that it's pretty damned expensive: you're probably looking at at least $10 worth, and you won't get much bang for the buck in terms of flavor.

 

I saw a few recommendations for a fermentation temp of 68 or more. If you have the ability to control fermentation temperature, Jamil Zainasheff recommends 62F in Brewing Classic Styles and I like my hefes much better at that temperature also. Higher temps seem to give an over-the-top banana note and little or no clove. (No biggie if you can't control fermentation temps yet. The banana fades over time so even if you find it excessive at first sooner or later it will be perfect.)

Also, I agree with the previous posters that simpler is better with this style, especially with regard to spices. WLP300/Wy3068 is a very flavorful strain that needs nothing but wheat extract and some noble hops to make a great beer.

 

I recently did an extract hefe from a kit from Northern Brewer it was simple and tasty:

To the OP: What type of flavor are you looking for? I ask because Oberon is not a Hefeweizen and if you use Hefeweizen yeast (Wyeast 3068 or WLP300) you are going to get a beer quite a bit different than Oberon. I had a look at your reviews and saw that you have had both Paulener and Fraziskaner and wern't too impressed. The simple Hefe recipes others have mentioned are going to get you much closer to these then they are Oberon. I havn't had Shiner so I can't really comment much on that but others have said it's more of an american wheat than a traditional Hefe.

 

FINE! How about he just eats an orange while he drinks his beer? Or are you Vikeman also opposed to eating fruit while drinking?

 

Anyone remember the Calgary Beer commercials... "To Stop Suck-Ing The Lime!"

Now that you mention it, I have never paired beer with fruit, except for a Witbier with a salad that included baby oranges.

 

I just resampled one of these and nothing about it makes me think oxidized. The honey sensation is more of an aftertaste. I could even be imagining it. Power of suggestion, with a multiple batch lag time? In any event, if someone were looking to brew something with some overt honey presence, I'd not recommend this.