Help with using Pilsen as a base malt.

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by FrostyGrog, Dec 9, 2017.

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  1. FrostyGrog

    FrostyGrog Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2017 Costa Rica

    Hi all, I only have about a year of brewing under my belt and I’m hoping someone could help me with some guidelines to brewing a simple clean IPA, possibly a session level ABV of around the low to mid 5%. Sadly, the only base malt I have is a Belgian Pilsen Malt as I have run out of 2-row.

    I do have some specialty malts laying around also which I can list if it helps, I also have a freezer full of different hop varieties in varied amounts. I have searched everywhere to find a recipe that is an IPA or APA that uses Pilsen as a base malt. Where I live I am about 7 hours from the LHBS and getting more ingredients isn’t an option.

    As I have never used Pilsen Malt before I am not sure if I would need to use additions of darker malts to bring out some character, mouth feel or depth to the beer. I have looked at some SMASH beer ideas Like a “Yellow Rose” clone by Lone Pint Brewery and I have Mosaic hops, the only problem is it has an ABV of 6.8%.

    In order to make a version of Yellow Rose that falls in the 5% ABV range I came up with this recipe.

    14.4lb Pilsner (2 Row) Belgium

    10.0 oz Flaked Wheat (for head retention)

    0.70 oz Mosaic Boil 60 mins

    1.14 oz Mosaic Boil 20 mins

    1.60 oz Mosaic Boil 10 mins

    2.3 oz Mosaic Whirlpool @ 170 degrees for 20 minutes

    2.3 oz Mosaic dry hop 5 days.

    Beersmith shows the ABV as 5.5% for a 7 gallon batch (6 gallons into the fermenter after a 90 minute boil)

    Anybody here have suggestions, does this recipe look reasonable? I am open to suggestions.

    Cheers and thanks in advance.
     
  2. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,336) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    A few things...
    this is going to get moved to the homebrew forums.
    Also, I use pilsner malt as a base for all my ipas. It works great, and a touch of vienna or munich along with some wheat is all the specialty malts I use. It gives you a full malt backbone without the sweetness of crystal malts.
    I think your recipe is fine. Keep it simple!
     
  3. FrostyGrog

    FrostyGrog Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2017 Costa Rica

    Awesome and thanks for the reply, I realize I posted it in the wrong section. I may add a touch of Munich for a bit of color, wheat for mouth feel etc. I had no idea the malt was so similar to two-row.

    I was worried about the ABV levels and using less grain to achieve the lower alcohol percentage, the only worry I have is a thin watery but overly hopped beer. I need to tap this beer for easy drinking and turn around for new years, but I guess I'll brew this first thing tomorrow - Cheers!
     
  4. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    I use Pilsner malt alone and with other base malts. It. Works well, but does taste different than standard base malt. Give it a shot and report back.

    Good luck
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,055) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    In fact, Pilsner malt is a 2-Row malt. It's made from a 2-Row barley grown in Europe, and is less highly kilned (and thus lighter in both color and kiln derived flavors) than the malt generally sold as "Two Row" in the U.S. (aka North American Two-Row, Plain Two-Row).

    You can, as @SFACRKnight mentioned, add some Vienna or Munich for color and flavor, to simulate having started with a slightly darker base malt in the first place. Vienna and Munich are more highly kilned than Pilsner or Plain Two-Row. They also happen to be (generally) made from the same barley(s) as Pilsner malt.
     
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  6. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,819) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    In addition to the sound advice already offered, my suggestion is to review your overall bitterness. My guess is you are pushing an IBU level of 70'ish . . . IMO, this is way too high for a moderate ABV/sessionable beer. What you are shooting for is overall balance between IBU, body, alcohol, malt/hop presence. Simply scaling back one variable (in this case ABV) may leave the balance a little tilted. Personal preference is important here, there isn't a single best answer. After repeated brews I find it's possible to hit the sweet spot. Keep good notes, build on the results.
     
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  7. Bryan12345

    Bryan12345 Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2016 Texas

    My yellow rose clone recipe is very similar. Mosaic is a great hop for SMaSH. You’re gonna love this beer!
     
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  8. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,336) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    As a side note not all pilsner malt is lower in lovibond than all two row.
     
  9. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Pooh-Bah (2,024) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Looks fine. If you wish to add something else. Only use a small percentage to brighten the corners with. I might adjust the 60 minute addition down. But I don't know what sort of bitterness you are looking for, nor what IBU's the original has.
     
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  10. FrostyGrog

    FrostyGrog Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2017 Costa Rica

    This is great food for thought I really appreciate the tips. The IBU’s beersmith gave me is in the high 80’s so I agree it may be slightly high, I do have reservations though as the BS software calculates (in my opinion) a bit high for whirlpooling and stands. I may knock the 60 minute addition down to 0.50oz for the 60 minute and ease back on the 10 and 20 minute addition to maybe 1oz which takes the IBU’s to 70.

    The revised recipe looks like this:

    14.4lb Pilsner (2 Row) Belgium
    10.0 oz Flaked Wheat (for head retention)
    0.50 oz Mosaic Boil 60 mins
    1.00 oz Mosaic Boil 20 mins
    1.00 oz Mosaic Boil 10 mins
    2.3 oz Mosaic Whirlpool @ 170 degrees for 20 minutes
    2.3 oz Mosaic dry hop 5 days.

    Vikeman and SFACRKnight you mentioned Vienna and Munich. I have some Munich so what percentage would you suggest I use, would 3-5% be ok? Thanks for the help, I’m brewing this first thing tomorrow morning.
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,055) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If the standard Tinseth formula is saying 80 IBUs, have no fear...that will be over-estimated. The Tinseth model isn't very good above about 65 IBUs. It's the reason I included an extra Modified Tinseth model in BrewCipher, that adjusts (flattens) the utilization curve above 65.

    I have done a 100% Munich (9L) SMaSH session IPA (or hoppy amber really) and it was not too much for my palate. But as a starting point...I dunno, maybe 10%-15% would be reasonable.

    ETA: The advice above is general. I know nothing about Yellow Rose. For that specifically, maybe try whatever % of Munich gets you to whatever SRM (color) your target beer is. Of course color and flavor aren't exactly the same thing here, but that might be good for a first whack at it.
     
    #11 VikeMan, Dec 11, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  12. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,085) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    You can do much worse than using Belgian Pils for a base malt. In fact, more brewers should be using Euro pils as the base malt. And please, do as you like but you really don't even need a specialty malt to make a great beer.

    So let us concentrate on the hop schedule. Get the IBUs where you like it and I think you may find a winning recipe that can serve you well for the next decade or so. That is my 2 cents anyway.

    As for thehead retention, if you brew it right, head retention is natural. Wheat is great but it's not something you need for body or head retention with all grain. My rule is that if it's not needed to develop the beer it's not needed at all, and just gets in the way of everything else. Too many additions detract from the best parts.
    Cheers.
     
  13. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,336) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I would leave it alone. Brew it as it sits and decide if it's what you want in the end. You can tweak it from there.
     
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