Help With Water Profiles for a new All grain brewer

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Theheroguy, Nov 23, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    Hello Thanks for reading.
    I'm looking for input from experienced all grain brewers who can critique the water profiles I have developed so that I can create better beer.
    I am trying to develop some great water profiles based upon Medford MA water
    Starting off my base water is around
    2.1 ppm Ca .5 ppm Mg 6.3 ppm NA 4.10 ppm S04 and 4.4 ppm HC03 (Bicarb)

    As we all know water fluctuates year round but no matter what time this water is going to be soft.
    For a pilsner or other light beer I don't think much adjustment is needed for this water

    I've read that calcium levels at about 100ppm can be beneficial so I've created this Balanced water profile
    108 ppm Ca 0.5 ppm MG 6.30 ppm Na 109 ppm S04 118 ppm Cl and 4.40 ppm HC03
    5 grams Gypsum and 6 grams Calcium Chloride in 7 gallons of water.
    This would be for a beer with a nice balance between malt and hop flavors

    For a hop forward beer I've created
    100ppm Ca .5 ppm MG 6.3 ppm NA 152 ppm S04 73 ppm CL 4.4ppm HC03

    7 grams gypsum 3.5 g CaCl

    I also want to make a profile which has higher alkalinity for Dark beers. I've read that baking soda is better than chalk because chalk doesn't dissolve very easily but I am concerned about adding too much sodium to the beer.

    Adding 6 grams CaCl 5 grams gypsum ad 6 grams baking soda I get
    107.7ppm Ca 0.5 ppm Mg 68ppm Na 109.4 ppm SO4 118.2 ppm Cl and 167.3 ppm HC03

    Please tell me if you think these water profiles are adequate or how they could be improved. Thank you.
     
    #1 Theheroguy, Nov 23, 2014
  2. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    I would say you are on the right track. 167 ppm HC03 may be too much alkalinity even for some dark beers. Mash pH is the most important target with regards to water chemistry.

    Flavor considerations should definitely influence sulphate and chloride levels (and sodium and magnesium to some extent). With regards to flavor, I suggest that you try a water profile, see what you think, and go from there. It may take several batches to get the profile for a given beer where you want it. OTOH, you my find that a profile that is in the ballpark to be sufficient for your tastes.

    You can also use pickling lime (Calcium hydroxide) to increase alkalinity if need be.

    If you measure you mash pH that is great. There are several spreadsheets out there for estimating mash pH based on water profile and grain bill. My favorite is MpH Water Calculator.

    Cheers!
     
    #2 utahbeerdude, Nov 23, 2014
  3. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    "I am concerned about adding too much sodium to the beer."

    Valid concern...looks like your water already has plenty of NA. That's the only problem with baking soda. I'd build the water from scratch for most of your paler beers.`
     
    #3 GreenKrusty101, Nov 23, 2014
  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    To me it looks like the Natrium (Na) is fine at 6.3 ppm for the base water.
     
    #4 hopfenunmaltz, Nov 23, 2014
  5. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Yes, read the constituant first and then the level (ppm) (at least on the adjustments)...my bad
     
    #5 GreenKrusty101, Nov 24, 2014
  6. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    Thanks for the replies. I will try to brew a porter but I'll dial back the baking soda to 5 grams.
     
    #6 Theheroguy, Nov 24, 2014
  7. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    FWIW, the general recommended ranges are:

    Calcium: 50-150
    Magnesium: 10-30
    Sodium: 0-150
    Chloride: 0-250
    Sulfate: 50-350

    For middle of the road beers, I roughly aim for

    Calcium: 100
    Magnesium: 10
    Sodium: 30
    Chloride: 75
    Sulfate: 150

    For dark beers, I roughly aim for

    Calcium: 100
    Magnesium: 10
    Sodium: 30
    Chloride: 150
    Sulfate: 100

    For hoppy beers, I roughly aim for

    Calcium: 120
    Magnesium: 10
    Sodium: 30
    Chloride: 75
    Sulfate: 250
     
    #7 koopa, Nov 24, 2014
    JackHorzempa and utahbeerdude like this.
  8. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    "FWIW, the general recommended ranges are:
    Calcium: 50-150
    Magnesium: 10-30
    Sodium: 0-150
    Chloride: 0-250
    Sulfate: 50-350"

    I can't imagine putting 150 ppm Na in any beer other than a Gose. :grimacing:
     
    #8 GreenKrusty101, Nov 24, 2014
  9. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    According to Palmer...

    "At levels of 70 - 150 ppm it rounds out the beer flavors, accentuating the sweetness of the malt. But above 200 ppm the beer will start to taste salty."

    which actually makes me want to revise my typical approach to malty beers and raise my general target of 30ppm of sodium to 100ppm
     
    #9 koopa, Nov 25, 2014
  10. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    heers

    Ok...might have to try that...even though hypertension runs in my family...what does Palmer know anyway? :slight_smile: Cheers
     
    #10 GreenKrusty101, Nov 25, 2014
  11. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    Regardless of "what" Palmer knows, this answers "when"

    [​IMG]

    oh wait, we were talking about John.....never mind :slight_smile:
     
    #11 koopa, Nov 25, 2014
    GreenKrusty101 likes this.
  12. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    #12 GreenKrusty101, Nov 25, 2014
  13. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    #13 koopa, Nov 25, 2014
    utahbeerdude likes this.
  14. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Touche
     
    #14 GreenKrusty101, Nov 25, 2014
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.