Hill Farmstead (2021)

Thanks appreciate the link

 

Its a LONG read (the thread, I didn't read the instagram posts aside from what was copy/pasted here)...took me about 2 hours between late last night and this morning. It's pretty exhausting too but definitely important to read, though likely not as important as reading the actual examples shared on Instagram I imagine.
There were some highs, lows and a lot of horribly placed and excessive question marks. It was disheartening to read the stuff about Shaun but he seems to have a few ardent defenders on the situations in question.
I hope you do read it and take something from it. There was a lot to unpack, for me at least. We should all be more aware of our actions and words and how they may be interpreted by others.

 

The thread was pure insanity and quintessential 2021 social media/online aggravation.

I'm right, you're wrong. I said this, you said this, but I meant this. Victim blaming, self loathing. It really had everything....


....except a solution. And no, I don't have one either. Do we burn Hill to the ground now?

 

The solution is to make craft beer a safer and more welcome space for women and people of color.

 

Serious question - moving aside/away from the have your cake and eat it middle ground of getting kudos for being able to recognize the issue, while owning a few *********s along the way - what do you reckon the solution should be, both for HF and in general?

@hoppytobehere 's post may be lacking in details or the necessary steps to get there; however as an overall goal I would 100% agree with it.

My personal thoughts as far as HF-specifically goes:

Either they should stay silent for the time being as things play out further, or come out with something very specific; be that a full mea culpa, or be that a full on dispute of the allegations. In either case if they go the specific statement route, they should outline what they already do for "safe and equitable workplaces" (their words) and what they are going to do in addition to help foster that going forward.

IMO the insta-story post was a lose/lose weak AF middle ground; the only way it could have been worse would be to have inserted the hands-praying emoji at the end.

 

Price aside, my only experience with Damon was the 2019 bottle and it tasted like a straight up camp fire. Hard pass for me

 

That's super surprising. I think there were two Damon releases that year, right? I had the March and loved it -- and I'm usually pretty averse to anything at all smoky.

 

I mean if we assume stories like those about him and Jean are true I don't know how you readily put out an action plan. Who do they answer to, really? They're ownership and in both cases a major, if not the major creative driving force (and in hill's case, doing a lot of hands on brewing). How can they be disciplined? Can't fire them. I think this ends up being the dilemma in cases like this. For victims, obviously, speaking out publicly in an industry that's relatively close knit and small, you can get blackballed. So until a dam really breaks you're really only going to get stories like these, which will either get ignored or dismissed by (enough) people. Damon is going to sell out no problem, as you alluded to in regards to the lack of feasibility of a boycott of HF.
Really, it's frustrating. I don't have a good answer. But the best suggestion is outside independent investigators that can speak with current and former employees, anonymously if requested, to see if there is a pattern at TH,HF, etc. But that costs money, and might reveal some nasty stuff.
I think they're both going to hope stuff blows over, make some HR handbook changes, and accomplish nothing. Hope I'm wrong.

 

Yes two batches were released that year. March and then again in the fall I believe? Not 100% on the second drop date. Mine was a March bottle as well and it was drank within a month of the release so freshness wasn't a problem. I received two bottles in a trade. After my experience with the first bottle I gave the second away to a friend who also did not enjoy it. Maybe bottle variation or infection? Couldn't tell ya what went wrong but it was very hard to get through even a few ounces and ultimately ended up being poured down the drain.

 

It was March and December and... wow, that's strange. Both in terms of that specific beer (I remember referring to it as "the Platonic ideal of a barrel-aged stout" before) and in terms of bottle variation in a Hill release (don't get me wrong, I'm aware they've released duds).

 

Yeah everything I had ever heard about it was that it was world class and the standard for what a barrel aged stout should be. I was over the moon when I was able to land a bottle and ever further excited to get two in the same trade. Ever since that experience I have made it a point to avoid trying to chase it down again. Would love to try it again to see if it was an isolated incident but I won't trade for it. Have hoped to run across it at a share or something but that hasn't happened either.

 

Have there ever been any substantiated claims against Hill? I for one, believe in the simple principle of innocent until proven guilty. We should all acknowledge that the craft beer world has an issue with sexism, but lighting up people without some proof is certainly not going to win over any hearts and minds. I will say though, if someone is being called out by numerous people that at least should be addressed. It seems like HF did, and unless some evidence surfaces, I am not sure how much more we should expect from Shaun.

 

Here's Shaun's response to VinePair. They reached out to him because they wrote a story about this (not just HF, the entire thing) and he replied by email.

“I have been reading and processing the recent comments and conversations taking place on social media in relation to both me as a person and the industry overall. I needed — and still need — a moment to reflect on the commentary, which has been serious in tone and tenor. To say it is unsettling is an understatement. I surely have a different perspective on what has been shared both overtly and anonymously, but what matters is how each person sees it. I think something that is uniformly apparent is the need to examine the environment of our industry and address how the entire community might move it, collectively, toward a place of shared respect, safety, personal responsibility, equitable conversation, and inclusive diversity.

I began in this business with the passion of creating a new and different way to consume beer. With that came a lot more than I anticipated. I have shown many human moments and will continue to do so, but I have never acted in a manner that was openly, willingly or consciously dismissive, degrading or threatening. I didn’t intend to be a visible presence in a community and I have been both honored and challenged with this unique role.

I want to share that I am listening because I believe that change for everyone only comes out of the willingness to engage in conversation, the freedom to share perspectives, and the desire to further the dialogue. I hope that others will join in that respectful quest. Such an ideal forum for discourse remains absent from our grasp, but it is within our reach.”

 

What would the incentive be for making this stuff up anonymously and with very specific situational details (airbnb couch?). AB InBev making a power play to set up shop and sling farmhouse saisons in Greensboro Bend once they take down the competition?

 

Never have so many words said so little. I'm not even going to outright claim everything occurred/ was as bad as it sounds, but man, this statement is like if a PR guy got into philosophy (I realize his background, of course). But, certainly it admits to nothing and covers him legally so what can one expect? Thanks for posting this. At least he responded unlike Jean, even if I would've laughed him out of the room if I were to get that response to my questioning him in person.
But in all seriousness, does he REALLY speak like this at all times? (Seriously, recite this out loud to someone, and see their reaction.)

 

Maybe they were pissed about Damon costing 35 bucks a bottle now?

In all seriousness, I couldn't speculate on why someone would post that, and I am certainly not discounted that it could be true- in fact, I bet they are true, but I am not busting out the pitchforks over unsubstantiated allegations. Hill's response in the Vine Pair post seems to say that he realizes that he may have pissed some people off, but it wasn't intentional, and he really would just prefer to be left alone. That should be easy to do up in NEK, especially if any real proof of misdeeds surface.

 

Quiet in here, I'll just tip toe out.

 

The statements people made about what they witnessed and what happened to them ARE evidence. Juries are routinely instructed that they can convict a defendant based purely on witness testimony if they believe beyond reasonable doubt that the witness is telling the truth.

When the situation is a white man being accused of sexual misconduct, though, suddenly lots of people start re-defining "evidence" as something other than what counts as evidence in any other case. It's bogus.

 

There has been some accountability at other breweries as per Todd’s post in the original thread on this:

• Tired Hands Brewing Company founder steps away from operations after allegations of racism and sexism spill over in social media
• Jacob McKean, Founder of Modern Times, steps down as CEO
• A statement from the Cicerone Certification Program
• Søren Wagner, Founder of Dry & Bitter, has resigned

 

Hopefully we can discuss this here in the way it’s been possible in the other brewery threads. But at the very pinnacle of the artisanal brewer savant pyramid it seems to result in more pushback / “other side” / post nuking here