Hop forward

Yup, that link provides a pretty good representation of it. As far as whether it over generalizes the concept or not, it is true that many additional factors contribute to the perceived hoppiness of a beer. It still suggests an explanation and possible solution to the OP, who described his IPA with words such as "underwhelmed", "muted" and "startlingly subdued".

 

Was this the Colin Kaminski presentation? I have it on my IPOD and can listen to it again. But one thing that I gather from his presentation is that anything information over a year or two is probably outdated.

One thing that I've been wondering about and I don't think that anyone has mentioned yet is trub. On the probrew,com site there are some threads about trub. Too much will smoother your yeast. But trub also provides points to help release CO2 from the yeast. Which is good, something like a stir plate does. I'm also thinking about trub's role in the reason why some people get a more aggressive fermentation and others don't. Of course there could be more than one factor with that, and just like there is probably more then one reason for the OP's problem it could be a factor. And the extra trub will bond with hop oils and as I was eluding too could be helping to increase the release of hop aroma.

 

“Was this the Colin Kaminski presentation?” I must confess that I have no idea who was the author/presenter of the chart package that I read. I read the charts a few years ago. My memory ‘states’ that I was provided a link to the conference papers via hopfenunmaltz but since it has been a few years my memory is not serving me well at the moment. My recollection is that the charts include a number of graphics which illustrated hop aroma (as evaluated subjectively by beer tasters) for varying aroma combinations: varying hop amounts, varying additions (e.g., just at the end of boil, just dry hopping, various combinations of end of boil and dry hopping, etc.). Do you have this chart package?

“One thing that I've been wondering about and I don't think that anyone has mentioned yet is trub.” I can provide my personal viewpoint on the topic of trub. I make zero effort to minimize the trub in my primary fermenter; I consistently have a lot of trub. I also achieve excellent flavor and aroma from my hop additions. So, my personal experience is that the presence of trub has no (or minimal) impact on hop flavor/aroma.

Cheers!

 

It was Ray Daniels at the 2009 NHC.

 

Jeff,

You da man!!!!!!!

I must admit that the title of the presentation of “Advanced Homebrewing & Science” threw me for a loop. If you didn’t provide the critical aspect of Ray Daniels I would never have ‘found’ what I was looking for.

So, my memory is not all bad. I remembered that you were the ‘source’ and the hop flavor/aroma ‘experiment’ results were consistent with what I recalled. On page 7 (first chart) it states:

• For a given amount of finishing hops:

– Best results if you split them btw steep and dry

On a previous chart it states:

• Half equals or exceeds “dry” on all measures!

So, to optimize hop flavor/aroma (for a given amount of hops) you should add half at flame out and half at dry hop.

Cheers!

 

The pros are doing a whirlpool for 30-45 minutes with the flameout addition, then they chill. I have found that to be very effective for flavor. Dry hopping gives the maximum aroma.

 

“Dry hopping gives the maximum aroma.” I read that bullet but my read of the graphic is that along the hop aroma axis the half and dry are basically equivalent. The half exceeds or is equivalent to dry on all of the other axes (flavor, etc,).
Cheers!

 

I should have stated you do both on a beer. That is roughly what FW does for Union Jack. Listen to the BN podcast with Matt Bryndilson.

 

I'm not sure that they are equal or mirrored halves though. From the material that I've read each makes different aroma molecules that have different stabilities. That what I like about Colin's presentation. It seems to go into more detail on each addition.

 

Do you have a link so that I can read the Colin Kaminski presentation?

 

This is what I've been doing recently, light bittering at sixty then a lot of flame out hops with a whirlpool rest for 20mins. Don't forget that the whirlpool rest adds bitterness too.

On the other side, I did an all brett IPA where I only added hop extract for about 70 IBUS at 90min, let it go for about a month and then did two three ounce dry hoppings in secondary and it scored really well in competition with a lot of good comments on the hop aroma and flavor.

To the original poster I would dry hop in the keg if you don't want to do a secondary for dry hopping. Doing at least one dry hop with a minimum of yeast present is going to get you the best aroma.

 

How did you dry hop the beer?

Dry hopping is #1 for hop aroma impact, followed by the end of boil/whirlpool, and I have heard good things about even chilling to about 180F or so and then doing a steep before chilling the rest of the way (doesn't work with a counterflow, obviously).

For an IPA, I think it's good to have a big addition for both, as they give different character, with dry hopping being more grassy and oily, which end of boil boil comes of as rounder and fruitier to me.

Another thought though, is that maybe you drank it too young and there was a lot of yeast in solution that was muddling the hop flavor. Another week cold and it might have cleaned up and let the hops come to the front...

 

I do a Cream Ale where all of the hops go in at flameout, 45 min whirlpool. It has bitterness, it is approximately like the bitterness utilization from a 12 minute addition. Might have to get that one tested someday.

The 170 to 180F addition is a good way to add aroma.

The Cream Ale was called "fuity" by a friend who is a BJCP National judge. The yeast was the Chico strain fermented cool. The hop character and bitterness are rounded also. You summed it up very well with your assesment.

 

Thought you would never ask. But you have to be a member. And it's audio.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/8616/02HopBoilChemistry.mp3

 

He did not have a Powerpoint. Neither did Patrick Rue.