Hopping Experiment - Poll time

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by telejunkie, Oct 3, 2016.

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Hops Experiment

  1. Kegging vs. Bottling

    6 vote(s)
    21.4%
  2. Dry Hop Quantity

    22 vote(s)
    78.6%
  3. Other (please list below)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    Alright, so need some fellow home brewer's opinions here…I'm helping co-host a class next month titled 'advanced hopping techniques' and want to bring an experimental brew for a tasting. So need some opinions as I've currently got two thoughts for an experiment listed for the poll but am only going to have time for one. Open for suggestions as well to other experiments...

    - the bottling vs. kegging was based on feedback from @OldSock and Scott Janish who pointed out the advantages of kegging vs. bottling with hopped-up beers. Would love to actually try to qualify these advantages in an experimental NE IPA batch. So would be a simple split batch brew that I keg in my normal manner for half of the batch (force carb) and bottle the other half in my normal manner (bottle condition). Would be a blind triangle taste test.

    - the dry hop quantities would be really to try to gauge an aroma curve for 2 different dry hops. Was thinking Citra & Willamette to see how quantity of the dry hops would affect the aromatic punch and quality of beer (bitterness , astringency, etc..). So would have a control (no dry hops), then 1oz/5gal, 3 oz/5gal, 6oz/5gal, 10oz/5gal. for both hops. Thought that could be fun too…though more work and would have to bottle those. Wouldn't be a blind tasting.
     
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  2. brunascle

    brunascle Crusader (438) Nov 4, 2010 Massachusetts

    Voted for dry hop quantities. While kegging vs bottling might be more relevant for a lot of people, I feel like the results will be predictable and the exact details won't do a lot to alter the general consensus: IPAs are better kegged than bottled.

    Dry hop quantity, on the other hand, to me is more of an unknown, and I'd be more interested to see the results. How much of an effect does it really have? When do we get into diminishing returns?

    I'd also be interested to see an experiment on fermentation vs traditional dry hop timing.
     
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  3. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    Hmmm…i like that, may need to play around with that experimental set-up. Split batch, 1/2 dry hops during active fermentation 1/2 after fermentation dies down vs. all dry hops after fermentation dies down. Blind triangle testing…
    Is that kind of what you're thinking?
     
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  4. brunascle

    brunascle Crusader (438) Nov 4, 2010 Massachusetts

    That's pretty much exactly what I'm thinking.
     
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  5. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    Which one do you think will be of more use to the students in the class? Dry hopping is something everyone can do and change up very easily, whereas keg vs bottle is a little more limited to those that are looking into kegging over bottling more than anything else...so as a college educator myself, I'd go for the dry hopping experiment because it will be usable by more of your students immediately and therefore should have a bigger impact on them than kegging vs bottling. At the same time, I think that experimenting with biotransformation hopping vs traditional dry hopping is more "cutting edge" as far as hops go, compared to just different hop amounts, and might be of more use for both advanced and beginner homebrewers. I would personally stick to a clean IPA instead of a NE IPA, to keep the variables at a minimum and give your experiment more validity...and because most homebrewers in general brew clean (i.e. chico yeast) IPAs more than NE IPAs overall (and because the NE IPA fad is slowly fading as we speak).
     
    #5 DrMindbender, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
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  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

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  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    What makes you say that?

    Cheers!
     
  8. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    At least in homebrewing, it seems that many homebrewers have already experimented with NE IPAs and are back on the clean IPA train, including myself. After all of the hype about NE IPAs, I've heard a lot of homebrewers mention lately that they have had their fill of the milkshake style and dont really make too many of them anymore. I have brewed enough NE IPAs to realize that it isnt my preferred way to brew an IPA and I much prefer a juicy west coast IPA. My experience is only a snapshot of those I interact with, but it seems to me that many homebrewers are over the NE IPA fad.
     
  9. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    As @DrMindbender state, so have I started to move away from that NE style. It does not keep as long in a bottle, vs a clearer less hopped IPA or dipa. I believe the style will stay around be like all new things they get old and then there's something else new.
     
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    If you are correct in this assessment it sure has been a short fad.:grimacing:

    I homebrewed my first (and only so far) "NE" IPA a few months ago (a clone of Trillium Galaxy Fort Point Pale Ale). I enjoyed drinking that batch and I might make it again.

    My next IPA will be an 'experiment'. I will brew a 'regular' IPA but instead of using US-05 I will instead use S-04 (the yeast strain that I used for my "NE" IPA). Maybe this beer will be a hybrid? Hmm?

    Cheers!
     
  11. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    I think it was destined to be a short fad because of how polarizing NE IPAs are compared to other IPA styles. In my experience, there are more people that dont like NE IPAs compared to any other style of IPA, so that leads me to believe that the numbers of folks that really like them are less overall (at least percentage wise) compared to other IPA styles as well, making it more susceptible to being fad-ish compared to other IPA styles.

    I've subbed 04 for 05 many times in the past few years...I still like my 05 vs 04 IPAs personally :slight_smile:
     
  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The 'challenge' here is that the fans of the so called "NE" IPA (one BA coined the term "crhazies") are extremely enthusiastic about these sorts of beers so you hear (and read) a lot about their love of these beers. It sure makes it look like lots of folks love this sort of beer. I can relate that from a commercial beer perspective that the fans of Tired Hands hazy hoppy beers will wait for hours in line to buy beers that are very highly priced. They charged $22 for a 4-pack of 16 ounce cans of their brand Mago Tago last week and that beer was sold out in just a couple of hours.
    How would you characterize the qualities of the S-04 versions vs. the US-05 versions? What are the distinguishing features?

    Cheers!
     
    DrMindbender likes this.
  13. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    Well the class is being held in Burlington, Vermont…so will probably ferment with Nottingham which I like with the style. It has a nice profile with a solid attenuation level. I'll probably do a 100:100 ppm for SO4:Cl…nothing too crazy.
    @JackHorzempa, only have a month to get this ready for serving so can't do a time line for dry hopping. Alright…so onto dry hopping quantities vs. dry hopping during active fermentation…

    Thanks everyone for their feedback.
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Dave, the larger issue as regards the above curves is how well "NE"IPAs hold up as packaged beers (i.e., canned beers in the case of Grimm Artisanal Ales). Beyond the limited time you have at the moment, you do not have the ability to can beers like the folks at Grimm Artisanal Ales do.

    I was discussing this more like I am 'planting a seed' for potential future activities. Maybe someday in the future you might be speaking to another commercial brewery that cans their beers (e.g., Tree House, Trillium, Bissel Brothers,..) and as part of that conversation you could inquire whether they have scientifically assessed (or will assess) the dry hop timeline of their beers.

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
  15. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Back on track, I voted kegging vs bottling. Brulosophy has been blowing "common brewing practices" away lately, this may wind up being the same...
     
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  16. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    I voted kegging vs. bottling as well. Ever since I started kegging last year, I've noticed a huge difference in hop freshness vs. bottling.
     
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  17. telejunkie

    telejunkie Savant (1,107) Sep 14, 2007 Vermont

    Thanks for everyone's input…
    Thanks @brunascle I'll let you know how it goes…but going with option C you suggested. Brewing up 12 gallons, split into 3 fermenters. 1st fermenter gets all dry hops added at about 50% attenuation, 2nd fermenter gets 1/2 dry hops at 50% attenuation, 1/2 dry hops 3 days after fermentation is complete. 3rd fermenter gets all dry hops added 3 days after fermentation is complete. All three will be kegged (so I don't need to wait carbonation of bottles) since time is starting to run out and still haven't brewed it yet since my family has been visiting for the past two weeks so been hosting and not brewing. Good news is that a bunch of kegs have freed up with all the people around…so I got that going for me.
     
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  18. mbbransc

    mbbransc Initiate (0) Mar 24, 2009 North Carolina

    Sounds like an excellent experiment and I look forward to the results. Will there be a write-up on here, or in BYO?

    thx

    (BTW, NEIPAs are FAR from over. As tele mentioned, just check out the lines and trade demands for those beers.)
     
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  19. Applecrew135

    Applecrew135 Crusader (431) Jul 18, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Voted for dry hop quantities. I've always had issues w/ dry hopping, so maybe this will help me out.
     
  20. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    Are you using leaf or pellets.
     
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