Hopping Schedules

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse, Dec 15, 2016.

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  1. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Zealot (744) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana

    I see a lot of talk about when and how to use hops, but not often about the best way to use different varieties of hops together. I know this is a personal preference thing, but I am wondering what others prefer.

    Have you had better experiences mixing the hops together throughout the process, or is it better to use them at distinctly different parts of the process?

    For example:
    - Using 1 Oz of each hop @60, again @10, then dry hopping with equal parts of each.
    VS
    - Using one hop as a kettle hop and another as a dry hop.

    For context, I'm planning to brew an IPA this weekend. I ordered some bulk hops, and I am planning to use Chinook and Comet together for this brew. I'm not sure either one is ideal for bittering, but that is what I am working with. I also hear that Comet is very dank, which comes out strongest as a dry hop.
     
  2. BEER88

    BEER88 Pooh-Bah (2,086) Apr 2, 2015 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    In the Homebrew books I read bittering hops are from boil to 25 minutes, flavor hops are from 25 to 7 minutes, and aroma from 7 to 0. Comet is dual purpose with slight fruity notes
    Chinook is dual with pine and herbal notes.

    Hope this helps. I generally do a light charge at 15 minutes and lots of hops at flameout for 2o minute whirlpool, and double dry hop at 5 days into fermentation and then at 5 days left! I favor the fruity juice bomb IPAs so i use a lot of citra/galaxy/Amarillo/mosaic in my IPA's, cheers
     
  3. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Zealot (744) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana

    But do you tend to use the same hops in the dry hop you used in the boil, or do you use different ones for each phase?
     
  4. BEER88

    BEER88 Pooh-Bah (2,086) Apr 2, 2015 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If they are dual purpose I do, if not then no! For comet and chinook you should be good.
     
  5. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    What you are talking about is a blend or "medley" of hops. Some hops such as Zythos and Falconer's Flight 7Cs have already been blended at the hop processor. Some BAs insist on dryhopping with the same varieties as their kettle hops...I usually do, but wouldn't be afraid to push the envelope with something different.

    Comet is the only hop I've gotten a metallic taste from...admittedly only used once
     
  6. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    You can think of hop varieties as
    Bittering hops
    Flavor or Aroma hops (I think it easiest to use these terms interchangeably), and
    Dual purpose.

    Those designated as bittering hops typically have high alpha acid content (the main driver of bittering), but little or maybe less desirable hop oils (the main driver of aroma). Their aroma characters will be driven off in a long boil. It is generally agreed upon that there is little surviving aroma from hops used in a full 60 min boil, so if you don't care for the aroma, not a big deal.

    Flavor/Aroma hops typically have low alpha acid. You could use them to bitter a beer but it may require a lot more of them to achieve desired results. Of course, the have desirable hop oils driving their aromas. These tend to get added later in the boil (20 minutes or less?)
    , or in the whirlpool, or in the dry hop. This is because there will be limited or no opportunities for heat-based volatilization of those aromatic oils.

    Dual purpose hops can be used for bittering, and they are high alpha so you don't need a lot, but the also have a lot of desirable oil contents, making them useful for flavor/aroma.If you use them a 60 min, there won't be a lot of oil that carries into the final product,

    You should look at all this as guidelines and feel free to mix them up anyway you like, because it all boils down to personal preference. If you have some particularly hoppy beers in mind that you really love, try to find clone and tribute recipes and see what they have in common, not only in types of hops, but how they get used in the process.
     
  7. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    Mix and match for sure! Some hops you may not like even tho they are popular, or, hop combos. Brew often, keep records of the brew day as well as tasting notes. You might be surprised as years go by what you have recorded.
    Have fun.
     
  8. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Zealot (744) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana

    So it seems like the general consensus here is that I should use some Chinook and some Comet in the boil, and then dry hop with some Chinook and some Comet.

    Is there a particular reason this is what most people would do? It is just safer? Would the beer seem out-of-balance or dichotomous if I were to only use one in the boil and one as the dry hop?
     
  9. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah


    Most would probably classify Comet and Chinook as dual purpose hops. If you buy into the idea that bittering hops only deliver bitterness, then the reason for mixing bittering hops is strictly one of practicality. Use whatever you have on hand to get you to the desired bitterness level (IBU), without using up something that might be used in interesting ways later on, like a dual purpose hop, You have to ask yourself what aromatics belong in the finished product. A reason for mixing hops is that hop blends may provide more full-ness, roundedness etc. to the aroma and flavor. In other words, the hops might complement each other. On the other hand, they could clash or muddy things up. This is where personal preference comes into play. It's difficult to provide rules, but some attempts have been made. Brewing Classic Styles, if I recall, has a brief section on hops selection, a recent Zymurgy or BYO article addressed combinations of hops. You can read many hop descriptions at YCH hops and try to wrap your brain around whether they will complement each other, but nothing beats personal experience in these matters.

    Comet and Chinook? I think they would pair well, but I have never used Comet, only read about it.
     
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  10. barleyhead

    barleyhead Devotee (329) Jun 5, 2008 New Jersey

    I found references and charts like in the link below to be helpful when planning hop additions.

    https://fhsteinbart.wordpress.com/2016/03/04/blinded-by-science-getting-the-most-out-of-hops/
     
    BEER88 likes this.
  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

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  12. anteater

    anteater Pooh-Bah (1,936) Sep 10, 2012 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    A lot of people are drawing a pretty clear distinctions between bittering and flavor/aroma additions in their IPA's these days. You'll see something like Magnum or Warrior at 60 min, and then nothing but Citra, Mosaic, galaxy, Simcoe, Amarillo at 0 min, whirlpool and dry hop. This is pretty standard, put the high alpha acid stuff in for bitterness, and save the nice hops with all the oils for later on.

    What I've been curious about, and I think this might get to the question your asking, is if there is a big difference in contribution between different flavor/aroma hops at 0 min vs. whirlpool vs. dry hop. For example would a beer with citra at 0 min and galaxy dry hop be a lot different from a beer with galaxy at 0 min and a citra dry hop? These seem like tough data points to pin down with out brewing a ton beers and taking lots of notes along the way.
     
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  13. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I read an article about hop selection from @erway regarding the hopping of project dank. My take away was to use the same hop varieties in dryhopping as you would in the kettle. For instance...
    chinook columbus or another dual purpose hop @ 60
    Citra, amarillo, centennial, or another high oil flavor hop from 15 minutes in to whirlpool.
    Dryhop with copious amounts of both.
    I use this technique alot. I like to bring my bittering addition back at flameout and dryhopping. I stick with chinook and columbus for this reason as I like their late addition and cold side properties. I loved citra, galaxy, nelson and centennial for late additions. Think about flavors combinations that play well in the culinary world. Peaches and mango work well, amarillo and citra should too.
     
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  14. chavinparty

    chavinparty Zealot (653) Jan 4, 2015 New Hampshire

    I just brewed a straight Columbus IPA with citra Dryhop and its boss. In my opinion bittering hops can be awesome as late additions fwiw. Plenty of room to mess around. Also I have had better luck with 2 or 3 hop varieties in a beer vs 7+
     
  15. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Zealot (744) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana

    As an update, I still feel that the best way is to use the same hops you used in the kettle as a dry hop to create a more well-rounded flavor profile, but I decided to try something new this time.

    I basically made a single hop Chinook IPA (1 Oz @60, 2 @15, 2 @10, and 3 @ flameout), and plan on dry hopping with 3-6 Oz of Comet this weekend. I'll let you all know what I think about it versus my previous approach.
     
  16. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    One of my favorite homebrews utilized chinook through the boil and was dry hopped exclusively with citra. It came out very nice for a beer that lacked subtlety.
     
  17. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Anyone else find it interesting that we are this far into the thread and no one has bothered to separate IPAs out from other styles?

    Anyway, as far as IPAs go all the advise above is pretty spot on from my experience.

    I'll address other styles here, which I tend to brew more often. Years ago I used to see most recipes calling for the same flavor/aroma hop being used for bittering (eg hallertau in a Pils or EKG in a bitter). Great if you are buying hops batch to batch but not so great if you want to spread your bittering hops over several batched.

    From my experience I care little about my bittering hop additions, IMO. If I'm brewing an English bitter and want 20 IBUs from my bittering addition I cannot tell a huge difference from half an ounce of Warrior or 3 oz of EKG at the end of the day. In the kettle, it is actually nice to have a little less hop residue .
     
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  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Well, in the original post it was stated: "For context, I'm planning to brew an IPA this weekend."

    I have heretofore not posted in this thread but if I did it would have been an IPA hopping discussion.

    Cheers!
     
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