Hoppy Sours?

Arbor Brewing makes a sour double IPA called Demetrius that is actually really good. The problem is sours have to age while IPAs are best fresh, so you lose a lot of the hop aroma and flavor when aging them.

 

After I wrote that, I thought about it, I bet that's what they do to Demetrius, because the hops still came through pretty well. I really liked it.

 

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of sour/bitter combos, so it would have to be the right hops.

 

OK - you do not want to add hops prior to adding lactobacilllus or any other bacterial organism. The anitbacterial properties in hops will inhibit the bacterial growth. Chad from Crooked Stave said something to the effect of "F*ck yer IBUS" when it comes to the use of hops in sour beer; or rather, try putting as little hops as possible in a sour beer.

However - it is possible to sour the beer, age it, then dry hop it when all signs of fermentation are completely done. The use of a potent dry hop like Citra would certainly interact with the sourness.

As others have said - I don't like hops messing with my yeast (or other microbe) flavors. Really don't care for Belgian IPAs. I like my hops with a clean backdrop. But - it can be done.

 

I know Old Sock has done it, I just had one of my bottles of Sour Mango Blonde that I DH w/ Falconers Flight, Calypso, and Galaxy. Had too much diacetyl early on in the bottles so DH has faded a bit, but it was nice when fresh (other than the butter).

 

Bitter & sour do not play well together, so no early boil stuff. I usually keep my IBUs for sours around 15-20 for a 1.060-ish beer. Dry hopped sours, however, are the bee's knees. I dry hop alot of my sour mash stuff.

 

I like to age my sour for about 6 months to a year and than dry hop them. This year I want to try dry hopping a raspberry sour I made with some simcoe.

 

This is exactly what I've done with great results. Same deal on New Belgium Le Terroir, their pale sour dry hopped with Citra and Amarillo right before packaging; or Cantillon Cantillon Cuvée Des Champions (Saint-Gilloise), lambic with Hallertau or Styrian Goldings. That way you get a fully developed acid/ester profile from the fermentation, and the bright fresh aroma of the hops (without much bitterness). As an added bonus, Brett has the ability to prevent the hop compounds from oxidizing as quickly so it tastes fresher longer, and to transform some of their compounds (e.g., glycosides) into new aromatic molecules. With the popularity of both IPAs and sours, I’m surprised we don’t see hoppy sours more often.

 

The numbers I have heard/read about put the upper limit at about 10 IBUs.

 

Many of the Russian River sours are listed in the mid-20s, although by the time they are bottled they are probably half that.

 

So another way to go about it is to do a sour lacto mash on your standard IPA and then go through with the boil like a regular IPA. No problems with hops killing microbes then. Red Swingline from Trinity is done in this way.

 

No problem biologically, but high bitterness combined with high acidity is often unpalatable. It's all about balance and personal taste though.

 

There is a local brewpub that is fairly mediocre, they have a Winter Warmer that isn't actually too bad. They decided to get into the souring game (I think the beer accidentally soured, not intentionally) with this beer, and it was not a good thing. Sour and bitter is not a good combo. That beer was not enjoyable.

 

Done right the combination can be simply amazing. The beer below is my favorite beer of all time.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/14/84131

 

Chad also makes Hop Savant, though, which is an absolutely delicious hoppy sour, so it's obviously not a hard and fast rule. As others have noted above, the biggest issue is when to add the bulk of the hops: late late late and after the beer is effectively finished.

Betelgeuze from Mikkeller and To Ol is also pretty good for the style.
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/24299/95345