How do I avoid grassy flavors in beers?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Theheroguy, Aug 9, 2015.

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  1. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    Over my past 2.5 years of brewing I've noticed that with some but not all of my beers which use a large amount of late boil, whirlpool, and/or dry hops have distinct grassy/vegetal flavor to them which is unappealing.

    Latest recipe in which I experienced this problem

    Ingredients:
    ------------
    Amt Name Type # %/IBU
    7.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 1 -
    4.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
    4.00 ml Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
    8 lbs 5.0 oz Baird Maris Otter (2.9 SRM) Grain 4 92.4 %
    6.0 oz Caramalt (Simpsons) (35.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.2 %
    5.0 oz Amber Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.5 %
    0.75 oz First Gold [5.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 14.7 IBUs
    0.75 oz Willamette [3.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 7.6 IBUs
    1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 9 -
    1.50 oz First Gold [5.80 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 2 Hop 10 8.9 IBUs
    1.50 oz Willamette [3.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 2 Hop 11 4.6 IBUs
    1.0 pkg Bedford British Ale (White Labs #WLP006) Yeast 12 -
    First
    0.75 oz First Gold [6.40 %] - Dry Hop 6.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
    Second
    1.5 oz First Gold [6.40 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
    1.5 oz Willamette [6.40 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

    I didn't get this grassy flavor until after I added the second round of dry hops. I racked the beer off of the first dry hop matter before doing the second stage.

    In another pale ale which was 94% 2 row pale and 6% caravienne with 1 oz sterling at 60 min 1oz at 10 1oz at 5min I got a similar vegetal/grassy flavor.

    I've noticed a slight, very muted grassy note in a wheat beer I made which used 1 oz first gold for bittering and 2 oz whirlpooled at 180*F for 20 min.

    I don't think the amount of hops I'm using is insane. The second round of dry hopping the first pale ale was at around 68*F so maybe temperature had something to do with it. I thought that with a short dry hop window of 3 days I wouldn't pull off too many vegetal flavors. Is it related to the hop varietals? I really don't know. Input is welcome

    For a reference point I've noticed this same flavor in both smuttynose finestkind ipa and shoal's pale ale. For whatever reason the flavor isn't objectionable in those beers.
    [​IMG]
     
    #1 Theheroguy, Aug 9, 2015
  2. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I would say yes...Willamette to me is grassy (haven't used First Gold). It looks like you are going for more of an English IPA with those hops (and the WLP-006)...if you want to mask grassiness, use some more pungent (high oil) varieties, IMHO.

    3 days of DHing (even twice) should not be overly grassy.

    Out of curiosity, did you use RO or distilled water?
     
    #2 GreenKrusty101, Aug 9, 2015
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  3. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    Medford MA public water. It is very soft, I also do BIAB so I use a large volume of water at once.
    I was going for a variation on hoppy esb/ipa ish beer that doesn't really fit in either category.
     
    #3 Theheroguy, Aug 9, 2015
  4. aobrehm

    aobrehm Initiate (0) Jun 18, 2015 Oregon

    When I am judging homebrew competitions and encounter an excessively grassy beer, the first suggestion I give is to back off on the quantity of dry hops. I don't think there's anything wrong with your schedule - 6 day and 3 day dry hops seems great - but the overall quantity of 3.75 oz is definitely on the high side. You might try scaling the total amount of dry hops back to 2 oz, added at the same intervals and see if this helps.

    Alternatively, oxidation sometimes presents as grassy. Check all points post-fermentation where your beer might pick up oxygen and do whatever you can to limit this.
     
    #4 aobrehm, Aug 9, 2015
    GreenKrusty101 likes this.
  5. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    So what do you suggest when you aren't judging homebrew competitions? : )

    3.75 oz dryhop is probably close to the norm for a 5 gal of IPA, IMHO
    Why and how the OP doubled the time on the First Gold DH is puzzling to me.
     
    #5 GreenKrusty101, Aug 10, 2015
  6. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I want to know why you stole this icon from HBT [​IMG]
     
    #6 Brew_Betty, Aug 10, 2015
  7. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    I copy pasted my thread because no one on HBT replied
    Originally it was only supposed to have the first dry hopping stage but it was severely disappointing so I added another one. Little did I know I should have apparently left out the willamette hops.
     
    #7 Theheroguy, Aug 10, 2015
  8. aobrehm

    aobrehm Initiate (0) Jun 18, 2015 Oregon

    When I'm not judging homebrew competitions, I ask the brewer for more information about their recipe, their process, etc. When I am judging, I have literally no background information about the brew other than the intended base style. My purpose for bringing this up is just to say that even if I didn't have all of this detailed recipe information, if you told me that a beer had grassy off-flavors I would recommend backing off on the dry hops.

    Take a peek at the BJCP style guidelines for English IPA. You'll notice that slightly grassy hop aromas and flavors are considered acceptable for this style. I'm guessing that the recipe you originally based this brew off of was designed to have a slightly grassy hop profile. The grassy qualities were then exaggerated when you upped the Willamette dry hops.

    You mentioned in your original post that some but not all of your brews end up with grassy off flavors. I would be interested to know what these beers have in common. Similar styles? Same hops?
     
    #8 aobrehm, Aug 10, 2015
  9. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    All have had different water profiles and yeast strains. Some were dry hopped others were not. Someone were racked into a secondary potentially causing oxidation but most were not. This is why I am confused. The only thing they have in common is that I was going for a beer which could at least loosely in all cases be described as a pale ale.

    Also the recipe was really only partially inspired by the use of amber malt in 60 minute IPA.
     
    #9 Theheroguy, Aug 10, 2015
  10. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Is there a common hop that was used in all recipes? Are the hops all from the same source?
     
    #10 Naugled, Aug 10, 2015
  11. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Reasonable recommendation, but I think an IPAophile could argue that the AMOUNT of hops in that IPA recipe was not excessive, but rather the choice of flavor/aroma/dh hops was suspect.

    From what the OP said, he got pretty much what he intended, but didn't want ultimately : )
     
    #11 GreenKrusty101, Aug 10, 2015
  12. Theheroguy

    Theheroguy Initiate (0) Jun 29, 2012 Maryland

    It is most definitely not what I intended. No reason to be snarky.
     
    #12 Theheroguy, Aug 11, 2015
  13. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Sorry if you took the observations/advice as snarky, but with that recipe (forget the additional dryhoppinging) if you DID NOT end up with something grassy I would have been surprised.

    You might want to more thoroughly assess what that means to you next time. (no snarkiness intended) Cheers
     
    #13 GreenKrusty101, Aug 11, 2015
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