How “Far” Beer Has Come…

2500 years ago, ppl were smart enough to not even make count chocula as a breakfast cereal

 

It’s my fault, as a boomer. I should’ve made my millennial kids eat oatmeal, or cornflakes. Maybe Cheerios. But no, they whined and I gave ‘em Count Chocula and Frankenberry and Cap’n Crunch and Lucky Charms. They didn’t want an apple or an orange in their snack bag for school, they wanted Fruit Roll-ups, and I relented. Fruit fucking Roll-ups, what was I thinking?

And that’s why I’m confronted with this crap, 30 years later as their generation is setting the taste priorities for craft brewing. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

So I blame it on myself.

 

@cavedave I know this isn't the first time you have said these on the boards, and of course its a good point. I have read about your cutting back on beer in the NBW threads at least, but even so would still buy you anything you want if we ever meet, and we can carry on our conversation

 

I care because these beers are taking up a lot of shelf space making it difficult to find non-hazy/juicy IPAs and sours/stouts without 5 additives and lactose. I don't even bother going to local breweries anymore, they chase trends like most breweries and are hung up on making hazies and smoothies. Not blaming the breweries, they are in this for money, just sad that my favorite style appears to be verge of extinction (WCIPA).

 

I appreciate that you bring a grounded voice to this conversation that often gets a bit "chicken little-y" around here. And I think that the concern/frustration that i hear (and share) is that our culture's tastes are turning so far into these super base, simple, sugary flavors. I've regularly maintained that I'm not worried about being able to find beers that I enjoy even as a tide of sugary crap washes over our shelves, but I am depressed to look out and see that my culture is apparently comprised of a significant number of adults that have the palate sophistication of a literal child.

People should consume what they like in all manner of cultural pursuits, that doesn't stop me from being unnerved when I look out at a culture of people drinking alcoholic children's cereal while listening to auto-tuned mumble rap and lining up to watch whatever the latest plot less gore **** action movie is. And yes, I know I chicken littled out there, but get off my damn lawn! Its the roof to my bunker for God's sake!

 

It could be due to I am a life long forager that it has always seemed strange when someone thinks it's wrong and childish that people prefer sweet beers/other things (indicating edible to the survival part of the mind) versus bitter or sour things (indicating poison or spoiled to the survival part of the mind). Our culture isn't turning into any base anything. Our survival mechanisms are reacting as they are intended to do when processing flavors, and there isn't anything culturally significant to conclude from the enjoyment of sweet. Enjoying very bitter things? Things that taste like spoilage? Why? Now those are things a bit more in need of exploration.

 

The fact of sweet being the simplest indicator of edible is exactly why it is considered base or simple or childish when discussing palates. It is the process of learning to appreciate the more complex and challenging flavors beyond sweetness that characterizes what we refer to as the sophistication of the palate. Bitter and sour and funky flavors represent poisons in a base sense, but with a more sophisticated understanding these things also represent medicines. There's definitely a philosophical discussion to be had about whether and why its valid to refer to things like taste in that hierarchical way, but the reality is that that is the convention in our culture.

Also, I'd say that traditional beer styles are often very sweet. Stouts and porters and various amber lager styles and medium colored ales are certainly in the sweet side of the spectrum to me. There is a difference between that and literally attempting to replicate a diabetes inducing children's cereal in everything from the flavor profile to the marketing.

 

Oh really? Please do tell.

It is a fact that "jaded old-heads*" are generally not all that worried and more amused, if I may speak on behalf of the Old Heads crowd.

You see, the Old Heads (that is a capitalized title) understand that everything old is new again. Many of us have been through these trends numerous times before and certainly understand that this is the nature commercial brewing. Quite a few know a little about the history of brewing too. So this comes as some surprise to me, being told about my thinking. Though you are of course encouraged and welcome to disagree.


If you are under the impression that some BA's are worried about these trends ruining beer, well, trust me, the joke is on you. You'll be an Old Head soon enough. You'll know what I'm talking about.

Cheers


*Jaded Old Heads... I can't say I'm on board with this description. Awfully awkward, yet not very descriptive. Try "Jaded Curmudgeons". Redundant, but forceful.
Cheers

 

Yes, the many possible reasons why a culture would consider it sophisticated to enjoy flavors our subconscious mind identifies as spoiled or poisonous is what I think needs some exploration.

 

Meh. Some people say "palate sophistication of a literal child", others say "oh thank heavens, finally a widespread beer craze that isn't All Hops All The Time More Hops More Hops More Hops".

When goses and Berliners took off, I was thrilled, as someone who genetically cannot appreciate IPAs of any stripe. Now that it's pastry stouts and fruited sours, I remain thrilled. I've been drinking craft beer for decades, and love a fair amount of styles - beer-flavored and otherwise (is Cantillon beer-flavored, or is beer-flavored something else?).

There's a fair chunk of the populace who cannot learn to enjoy IPAs, full stop. There's another sizeable chunk who is not willing to devote any time or resources to acquiring a taste for them, without being prompted by a "gateway" beer. Plenty of those people aren't going to find a doppelbock or sahti a compelling gateway. Perhaps they will find a slushy "sour" or a sweet stout more of that gateway, and proceed to explore from there.

 

If I were to hazard a guess I'd say that it has something to do with many of these flavors being possessed by plants and preparations that produced novel and enjoyable psychological effects and/or powerful medicinal properties. It takes a bit of bravery to have explored these flavors in the first place and then direct experience to have learned why one would go back to them.

I heard an interesting talk the other day where the gentleman described religion as a technology of suffering that induces ecstacy, in part through the psychology of shared suffering. Id throw that explanation in the hat as well

 

I've introduced more than a few people to what the term "beer" encompasses by handing them a New Glarus sour, whether it be a Belgian Red, Raspberry Tart, or Serendipity. In nearly every case, those people both loved the fruity beer, and went on to start exploring other kinds of craft beer. These are people who would have (and in some cases, had actually) spit out a sip of SNPA or Boston Lager and drain poured the rest.

It is a somewhat arbitrary line to draw, when declaring that "beer-flavored beer" should be the One True Way.

That said, as someone who can't drink IPAs, milkshake or otherwise, I do feel the "but my shelf space and tap handle space" pain. I've felt it the entire time I've been into craft beer. I know where you're at. All I can offer there is comfort that your preferred stuff is so popular it will never go extinct, as some seem to fear.

That, I won't argue. But I've personally found entire breweries whose schtick is "look at these 12+ variations on the same IPA but using different single hops" tacky, so my judgment may be considered suspect.

 

If only a 10 year old would enjoy it then where is their customer base coming from when obviously they are selling beer to people 21+, sometimes much older? Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean no one else does, hate to be the bearer of bad news. I hate hot dogs, they still sell a ton of them at the ball field. Cheers.

 

Comparing how ancient cultures once made their alcoholic beverages to modern breweries that, in every way possible, are emulating just making kids cereals from the 90's and kids desserts in beer form is NOT the same thing. You can't compare. Thats all I'm getting at, is that fair?

 

I hope if you (and others) get to try Scratch Brewing from Ava, Illinois. Their beers are brewed with naturally farmed and or foraged ingredients. Ava is hard to get to, but they typically have at least a beer or two in Chicago at the Beer Temple. Would definitely by a round or three for you if you are ever in our city.

https://www.scratchbeer.com/

In terms of this thread, I’m pretty much live and let live in terms of beer, even pseudo beer. I like all beer posts in WBAYDN or NBW/NBS, unless there is a personal attack or political diatribe that typically will drive our community apart, versus bringing us together. Hell, I even like posts with Rolling Stones linked videos.

I thankfully live in Chicago, so between the number of breweries and quality beer stores I’ll nearly always be able to find a quality to superb beer in just about any style I desire. That said, there are many without access in rural areas or small towns/cities who don’t have the same access, and I feel them.

The three closest (all new) breweries to me brew mostly styles I don’t like, and also mask poor brewing with adjuncts. I just have to go a bit further to seek what I like and what is good.

I understand the market will ultimately supply what people will buy, but I sympathize with those who have limited options in terms of quality beers, styles, or breweries. I also don’t begrudge those who enjoy slushees, or Reese’s Peanut Butter Hefeweizen, or Skittle Sours. I may pucker up and have a half second cringe when I see these beers, but as long as the drinker is enjoying, I am happy for them, but hope day they can find the golden road to quality beer.

There are so many roads on our respective beer journeys. So many roads.

✌️

 

Fair. My original comment was in jest. Cheers.

 

I've been lucky enough to sample a few beers from Scratch. They were wonderful and a perfect example of being creative and adventurous in brewing in a true sense.

I also often think of a tiny local place that does lots of cool things including a gruit flavored with various roots aiming to emulate root beer soda flavors. It was wonderful.

 

This is the problem. It is EXACTYLY the same, brewers then and now brew what they have capability to brew in order to sell it, and customers will buy or not buy based on what they like. Same as it ever was.

 

perhaps. but seltzer -- something a ton of customers like...and "craft" brewers now make -- isn't beer. i went commercial to brew beer. sometimes you have to show the customers what they want before they know they want it. in our case, our kellerbier and rauchbier were recently voted the #1 and #3 favorite craft beers in our city. before we showed Columbia customers these beers, they mostly didn't know a franconian kellerbier from a white claw.