How many times are the same barrels used?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by maxifunk777, Aug 8, 2015.

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  1. maxifunk777

    maxifunk777 Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2015 California

    I was wondering what are the expectations on how many times a barrel can be used to age beer?
     
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  2. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Depends on too many variables. The beer used, what kind of barrel, what was aged in it previously, the amount of barrel flavor wanted, if they want it just fresh or do they plan to convert it to a sour barrel...
    Some breweries will use it once and be done, others will use barrels until they basically fall apart.
     
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  3. bluehende

    bluehende Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware

    I have heard 2 uses if you want the old contents to come through in your beer. For sours some breweries have records of barrels being used for 100 years or more.
     
  4. pat61

    pat61 Initiate (0) Dec 29, 2010 Minnesota

    Non-sour barrels are hard to clean and a variety of bacteria and wild yeasts such as Brettanomyces love old beer barrels. I know some homebrewers who ended up 53 gallon drain pour after trying to use a bourbon barrel a second time even after a thorough cleaning. In a non-wild or sour beer brewery the wild yeasts and bacteria can get into your regular beer. Wild and sour beer brewers can baby barrels for several batches to get just the right kind of bugs growing in the barrel for the kind of beer they are shooting for.
     
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  5. Geuzedad

    Geuzedad Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2010 Arizona

    Virgin or new oak barrels usually are only good for two to three years on average, after that they lose most of the vanilla and tannin that was imparted into what was aged in them. In aging beers in previously used whiskey or wine barrels, the first use would be the best. Subsequent uses for the same purpose would impart less flavor. As to preventing Brett or other wild yeast infection, I have heard some brewers will add whiskey or bourbon back to the barrels and let it set in order to "sanitize" the barrel before reuse. It will also impart the flavor back into the wood somewhat. If used for sour beer, most barrels can be reused indefinitely. Cantillon uses their barrels over and over again. They have some in their inventory that are over 100 years old. I cant remember where I read the interview, but Jean from Cantillon stated that the use of the barrel depends on how worn it becomes, i.e. it falls apart or leaks. I recall reading average life of a barrel for this purpose is 70-80 years. Just my two cents worth, if anyone has other info please share! I know you brewers are out there reading these comments. Pitch in and let us know about your experiences!
     
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  6. Geuzedad

    Geuzedad Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2010 Arizona

    As a side note, Cantillon is now looking into aging it's Lambic in Amphoras, clay pots like what the ancient Romans made their wine in. Here is the article from Cantillon: http://www.cantillon.be/br/3_22
     
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  7. sharpski

    sharpski Grand Pooh-Bah (3,100) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    The character from a barrel usually only lasts 1 or 2 uses, after that it contributes less flavor and becomes more about the bugs harbored in the wood than the flavor from the spirits or the barrel itself.
     
  8. fuhkyou

    fuhkyou Initiate (0) Feb 20, 2013 Idaho

    Not to be off topic but in Scotland they rebuild barrels from the good parts of old, bad ones for aging whisky.
     
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  9. Andy311x

    Andy311x Initiate (0) Apr 28, 2008 North Carolina

    I always wonder about Dogfish Head and their use of the large wooden fermenters used for Palo Santo and Burton Baton. I wouldn't think that after so many uses they are still providing the same characteristics to their beers as when they were brand new, but surely I'm missing something, the scientists at DFH are smarter than me...
     
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  10. Lazhal

    Lazhal Pooh-Bah (1,890) Mar 13, 2011 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    @Perrin_Brewing just released their No Rules Vietnamese Porter aged in bourbon barrels.

    I'm told this is the 3rd time the barrels were used. The bourbon is present, but significantly faded.

    If they use them a 4th time tying to impart bourbon flavor, they would probably have to let the beer sit in them at least a year. That still may not work.
     
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  11. Greywulfken

    Greywulfken Grand Pooh-Bah (5,815) Aug 25, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    So, it varies (based on a few factors) - not surprising - I figured that would be the case.
     
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  12. sharpski

    sharpski Grand Pooh-Bah (3,100) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I believe DFH periodically "shaves" the tanks to expose wood that's more fresh.
     
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  13. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Pooh-Bah (2,236) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Depends on the way the barrel is being used.
    For the barrel and what it contained characteristics alone: once, maybe twice.
    For the barrel hosting characteristics: i.e. sour programs, lambics, etc. For as long as they last.
     
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  14. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Trader

    Old Hickory uses 2x barrels for Lindley Park, first use is for Event. Can't imagine a 3d go, you lose a lot. Always wondered if you could recondition a barrel.
     
  15. SCW

    SCW Initiate (0) Jul 25, 2004 New York

    As a general rule, "sour barrels" can actually improve over time and with use, as the flora that populates that barrel can make a proprietary environment and develop an indigenous character, very akin to the way a cast iron pan can be seasoned over time.

    On the other hand, bourbon barrels, cognac barrels, whiskey barrels, etc - actually diminish their potency and contribution after a few uses, and there are diminishing returns afterwards.
     
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  16. sharpski

    sharpski Grand Pooh-Bah (3,100) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Breweries had/have Cooperage staff to manufacture and recondition their barrels. Obviously more common before metal kegs, but Rodenbach, New Belgium, etc. have rows of foeders to maintain.
     
  17. maxifunk777

    maxifunk777 Initiate (0) Feb 19, 2015 California

    great insight thank you all
     
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