Huna for Beat?

Batch 4 had somewhere between 300 and 600 bottles if I recall, and there were over 100 people in line. If I remember correctly, some of the people at the back of the line didn't get any beer at all. That's a far cry from the 12,000 bottle run this time that was on shelves for a week. There's a reason something that hard to get will not trade at $4$.

That would be completely inaccurate.

There is an objective value to everything, its just an issue of whether or not it's subjectively relevant.

More accurately, all things, in this case beers, are composed of objective facts. How you use those objective facts to determine your own personal want and desire for said beer is entirely subjective. But ignoring all the objective information before making that determination is ignorant and unrealistic.

 

sorry, i goofed and thought you were talking about the latest one.

i agree, for general small bottle-count stuff, all bets are off (even if the beer is shitty).

i traded the latest beatification $4$ and i'd like to think most people did the same, despite crying from people who would have not, and did not, behave the same way in the same position.

 

Definitely feel you. I've been trying to lock down a trade for a few Beats but have been having a hard time finding a balanced trade. I'm even open to going over $4$ for multiple bottles, but seems like a lot of people are expecting multiple bottles of beer for each Beat which I'm just not gonna do.

 

no. "value" does not apply to everything. the word 'value' does not seem to mean what you think it means. my voice does not have "an objective value". there's objective facts about it, but you need to do some more philosophy homework before you start trying to assert anything about its objective value.

price on the other hand, that makes reference to value inherently. it's already in a discourse that includes the concept of value. whether or not it's relevant to trade value is, like everything else that determines trade value, subjective.

 

I wasn't speaking in terms of Philosophy... if that was not clear then I apologize. I suppose a more accurate word to describe what I'm saying would be attributes. Everything has objective attributes. I've been doing lots of scripting recently so I've been using the terms somewhat interchangeably.

But I will agree that the way I worded it was poor. I'm speaking far more literally than you. When I say value, I on the most simplistic of levels mean a property of something. So a beer is logically composed of many values(attributes) such as:

Bottle Count
Price
Volume

etc.

How you take these attributes and assign a financial value or level of desire or w/e is subjective.

But once again, ignoring the attributes is unrealistic. When trying to establish a balanced/fair compromise, you always want as much information as possible, and while a certain attribute might bare almost no impact on a final determination, I also find it highly unlikely that there would be a single attribute that would have no influence at all.

 

I have very few non beer drinking friends.

 

You're still trying to act like there is some set level of "value" that there's some magic formula to determine. There isn't. People trade shit they have for shit they want more. Or they trade to hook up their regular trading partners. Or they trade to re-trade for a bigger want. There's no set method to trading. It's not that hard to understand. I think if you saw every single trade that went down, you would be surprised by the range of different beers one single "rare" bottle has traded for.

There are factors that come into play, sure, but I would be shocked if everyone that trades on this site took into account every single detail about every single beer they trade. That's far too much effort for your average borderline alcoholic.

 

Bottle count is subjective because WHICH CRITERIA YOU USE IS SUBJECTIVE. Why is bottle count better than cost? It's not! THAT'S WHY IT'S SUBJECTIVE!!! That's the entire point! Why the fuck is it so objectionable to you that people just trade however they want to?

 

That's not what I'm saying at all.

Each person has their own subjective way of valuating things, but it's all based on the same objective information. One trader might not put much stock in the bottle count of a beer as another, but if you have a piece of information in your head it's going to factor into your decision on some level, even if it ends up being like 1%. You can't un-ring a bell after all.

And while I will agree that not every trader on this site will know all the details of the beers they are trading. I'm fairly confident that most of the people on here trading a Hunahpu or a Beatification have some idea on the bottle count, they definitely know the allocation, they know how big their bottles are and they know what they cost.

 

I have a bottle of Beatification for trade, looking for a 2012 Hunahpu. Any takers? Can do IP in Texas if interested.

 

Why do you lack the ability to completely read any of my posts.

I have said multiple times:

"I was never trying to imply that the stats of a beer should be the only basis for determining the viability of a trade. At the end of the day the goal of any trade should be to get both parties the beer they want at a value they personally deem acceptable."

But your statement is 100% false. Bottle count is an objective fact. There are x bottles, no matter who on earth you are, the brewery only produced x amount of bottles. What you choose to do with that information is up to you, but the number will NEVER change.

 

value doesn't mean attribute, even in coding / logic.

regardless, i was being entirely literal. the value of the beer to the store owner was the $$$ paid. this value concept is built into $ transactions.

dollar value doesn't need to determine (or even influence!) trade value, which is determined by negotiation between traders. however, dollar value is a "value source" removed from the opinions of individual traders. "bottle count" is not already a value source.

try to understand this. we're not speaking past each other, nor using words in weird ways; i am right and you are wrong. bottle count, color of label, volume, etc are not "the same kind of thing" as cost in this discussion, because the crucial difference is "cost is a kind of uniform value, while the other things are just random facts."

 

Does no one want my Beatification?

 

Umm, did you read what I said? I said that what criteria you use is subjective, and that makes the whole endeavor subjective.

I'd also like to know how this post isn't telling people what they should do with their beer:

I'm saying this post is bullshit. You're saying that someone who asks 1:1 Beat:Hunahpu is being unreasonable (if you're not outright saying it then heavily implying it) and that is bullshit. The value is whatever two traders agree to. You see to think Hunahpu is worth more than two beats. Fantastic. Trade it for that and stop telling other people what their beer is worth (if you even have any up for trade, or whatever).

 

More people want Beatification than Hunahpus. It price and bottle count aren't the only factors. Demand baby, demand.

Yo Dino guy, if you have tried over and over to trade for BeatificTion, and haven't landed it, offer moor beer. Stop being stubborn.

 

Please do some research regarding Scarcity in relation to Economics.

Some examples of Scarcity in modern economics would be the value of things such as Gold and Oil.

So while yes, something like bottle count won't always directly correlate to value, to act like there is no impact is asinine.

The most literal way I can think to express this would be for me to go into the trade forum and make a post like:

FT: Wooden Hell ISO: Multiples of Abyss

And then wait a bit. I'm guessing I would end up with a full mailbox fairly quickly. First I would review some of the offers, but then I would be like, hey, I just got 100 offers in 2 hours, maybe I can ask for more. And so the cycle continues.

There is demand for both Beat and Hunahpu's that exceeds the quantity available. The greater the demand, the more offers will be received. The more offers received the more likely the person trading the thing is going to want more for it.

If I went right now and made a post that said FT: Hunahpu's ISO: Beatification and waited a bit, I'm fairly certain I would get a broad range of offers, some offering me no Beatification at all, some offering me one, some offering me to and maybe even some offering more than that. Every single offer is perfectly valid because the person offering wouldn't make the offer if they didn't think it was fair, but, which one do you think I'm going to choose?

No. I'm not.

I'm saying that anyone who EXPECTS 1:1 is being unrealistic. I'm sure it will happen. I'm sure you could find someone who would give you 2 Hunahpu's for 1 Beatification. But that does not mean that anyone with a Hunahpu should be EXPECTED to make the same trade.

I have also NEVER said that I think Hunapu is worth more than 2 Beat's. I like most everyone in this thread have agreed that in general: 2 Beat > 1 Hunahpu > 1 Beat. There are always exceptions. But what most people have been disagreeing about on this thread was how to balance an imbalanced trade and which side should compensate with locals to meet $4$.

As to telling me to stop discussing the value of beer. Have you not read the topic of this thread? This is exactly why it was opened. Admittedly we have gotten a bit too broad in our scope as the focus really should be on the Hunahpu's

So regarding the Hunahpu's for Beatification, most everyone has agreed will probably (once again NOT ALWAYS) fall SOMEWHERE between 1 and 2 beats. But we also almost unanimously agreed that at the end of the day the final determination is between the parties making the trade and no one else.

What I really am not understanding is your frustration. This is the trading discussion forum. We are having a discussion. I could completely understand why you would be mad if this was happening in the ISO:FT forum, but it isn't. Calm down.

The largest reason there is more demand for Beatification than Hunahpu's right now is the amount of time that has passed since release. People are going crazy for Beatification right now since it just came out (just like what happens with every other release).

 

Whenever someone tells someone else to calm down in a discussion forum you know they're not worth taking seriously. I am perfectly calm and always have been, your arguments are just dumb.

 

giggle

 

Or, you know Dino, people could just like Beatification more than Hunahpus.

Get over your little tirade. You are saying far too much over the stupidest of arguments. Have a beer, and reconsider that 1:1 if you really want to get Beatifacation.

Beatification is better than Hunahpus
More people want Beatification than they do Hunahpus

Yes, I know I am being subjective.

 

What's really ironic is I probably would say that I enjoyed Beatification more than Hunahpu's the one time I had both. But that doesn't have a huge bearing on trading value (sadly).