Hybrid Yeast Strains

Thank you for that input. I have only used 3724 once and while I really enjoyed the resulting beer I was very anxious about the fermentation stalling throughout the whole fermentation. I have not used it again since I have found other yeast strains that produce high quality Saisons with the benefit of zero anxiety.

Cheers!

 

anxiety comes from taking everything on BA as gospel

 

the fact that this entire thread might as well be in another language makes me realize how far I really have to go in homebrewing and how hopelessly ignorant I am currently...the only thing I know about yeast is I used 1056 American Ale yeast in my last homebrew...

 

great yeast...even the dry form (US-05)...but the sea is full of fish

 

Glad to know you approve! How long did it take you to learn all this stuff? Are there a ton of different yeasts for each type of beer or are there just a few that work for each style?

 

I have read many folks on other beer forums discuss how 3724 has stalled on them. If stalling wasn't a genuine concern, Wyeast would not discuss this aspect on their description of this yeast strain.

I am happy to hear that you have never experienced any stalling issues, and I also had no issues in my one batch, but the reality is that 3724 can indeed stall.

Cheers, brother!

 

Risk of stalling is way overblown IMO. Pitch an adequate cell count into well oxygenated wort with adequate nutrients and relax. I have used 3724 more times than I can count, and have never had it stall. It definitely is slower than most strains, which I believe is at least partly responsible for the reputation for stalling.

 

Not even in the ballpark!

In all seriousness, or blend is definitely different. One strain dominates the other in the other in The Yeast Bay Saison Blend, so definitely not a 50/50 split. Also, both isolates are not commercially available anywhere else, and both have noticeably different profiles than 3711 an 3724.

Cheers JH!

 

I guessed and I was wrong. My only defense is that I was very clear with: "My guess (and it is only a guess)..."

Nick, thank you for posting and setting the record straight!

Cheers to Nick (who knows what he is talking about)!

 

Although unrelated directly, this is why I don't buy gmo's. Patenting seeds and other living organisms is silly imho and creates issues for everyone except the guys raking in the dough...

 

Hi Lance, It's very exiting work you are doing at Omega Labs.
As far as my knowledge go's different strain mix together (Yeast Bay) will reproduce separately and not at the same rate, ending fermentation with totally other strain proportion from what it start with.
How OYL (sexually mate) will keep or loss rate proportions ?
If the mixed strain not consider as GMO, is it consider "FDA organic" ?
How about the sexually mate process is that method is patented ?
Why individual homebrewer will proefer OYL-500 over self mix, assuming it's cost the same ? And why commercial brewery will give up the control over the yest, prefering ready mix ?

Can't wait to to put my wort on your stuff


The milkman (hail2theale.com)

 

yes and yes...seriously, Chico in any form is fairly foolproof, but it would be a boring beer world if that was all anyone had to choose from. ... we're all constantly learning

 

Sorry for such a late response. Business and life have been hectic lately.

Our Saisonstein's Monster strain is not a blend. It is a genetically stable hybrid. Thus, there are no proportions to change over time.

Don't know about the FDA organic question. If any of these new hybrid hops varieties can be considered organic, I don't know why our hybrid yeasts would be any different. I think it would be a matter of propping the strain under "organic" conditions (e.g., using certified organic DME without additives). Right now I just use plain old Briess light DME to prop our yeast so it probably wouldn't be considered organic for that reason alone.

We have not filed a patent application on the mating process. We are maintaining that as a trade secret and just filing applications on the strains themselves.

It's up to the consumer whether they would prefer our hybrid over a blend of its parents. They will give you different results. If you like the hybrid, the advantage over a blend is that you shouldn't see any differences in your beers if you repitch from generation to generation because there will be no skewing of the populations like you would get in a blend.

The only "control" a commercial brewery gives up is that they can't give our strain to another yeast lab for maintenance and propagation. They're free to repitch as long as they want.

Finally, our Saisonstein's Monster hybrid strain is now available to home brewers at several Chicago-area home brew shops (listed on our website). If you live outside the Chicago area, some of them do online orders (i.e., www.chicagobrewwerks.com). If you're interested in having your LHBS carry our strains, we can be contacted through our website (www.OmegaYeast.com).

 

How can you verify that a brewery has banked this strain with another yeast lab as opposed to simply reusing pitches?

Also, you indicated that the patent filing can take years to get final approval. What happens in the mean time? Without a patent to enforce, what prevents breweries from banking this strain and using it? As I'm sure you are aware from your past life, patent pending status provides absolutely no legal protection against use by a third party. Only a granted patent lends legal protection and the ability to seek legal actions, and only effective the date the patent was granted. Infringements cannot be charged retroactively from the date of patent issuance, to my knowledge.

It also seems like a daunting task to detect and enforce, as taking legal action is not an inexpensive proposition. How do you plan on tackling the detection/enforcement end? Also, have you thought about what occurs if some of your patented yeast cells are in a beer that did not intend to use your patented strain (kind of like Monsanto seeds floating into a neighboring organic farm that only uses heirloom seeds)?

Interested to hear how you'll deal with all of this. I'm used to seeing/dealing with this in my day job all the time, but this is all so new to the brewing world!

 

Uh, yeast mating and sporulation is kind of a daily activity in research labs around the globe, so I guess your "trade secret" is out there. Reading a line about how you do what was described in a paper back in 1975 as a "trade secret" was kind of funny. Maybe you do it without needing a sonicator or dissecting scope, but that doesn't make for secret.

That said, it's good that people are commercially mating yeast strains for homebrewers, and I'm glad that your company does what it does. I imagine the reason that we haven't see these available before is because we already have thousands of strains out there and people thought they didn't need anything better - not that people couldn't do it.

If anybody wants to do this at home and has lab experience, the material requirements aren't that high. Just look at the "yeast" chapter of current protocols in molecular biology. At home, you're probably going to have to do random spore analysis.

Hopefully you can implement some of the Hittinger lab hybridization techniques for strains that have strange ploidy numbers. I know little about it, but I know it ended up with a whole bunch of press online.