I think I'm done trading

It is for the benefit of everyone though as those who are more experienced have more to lose if they dick someone over - their reputation. If the newer traders wouldnt just jump into the deep end and took the time to read and follow the trading forums before starting up they would drastically decrease their chances of getting screwed over or screwing someone over unintentionally as well.

No one said that someone has to start off locals for locals (though many people choose to such as myself). You can trade the bigger beers as well but be prepared to ship first because this is where reputation comes into play. If you are not well established then why is someone going to send a big, hard to get, valuable bottle your way with no comfort over the situation. If you are new you should ship first because as previously mentioned the more experienced trader has his/her reputation on the line and the honus is on them to do right once they receive their box. I am not saying that new traders are bad by any means but seniority serves a purpose in this community. The more that you give to the community the more you receive in return.

 

Too much reading for me!

 

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify. The rules (or rule, more accurately) of which I speak is the "start small" rule. Re: shipping first, I have shipped first or simultaneously on every trade I've done and I think that rule is quite fair, as it is a natural means for sorting out the swindlers. I primarily take issue with users claiming new people don't know what they're talking about and refusing to deal with them unless they start small. My opinion is that people can start where they'd like and the "market" will reveal to them whether they're on target or not by means of a trade happening or not happening. If they're intelligent they'll learn by not getting every trade to go through.

And regarding eBay, it has terms of agreement that dictate how transactions are handled. This site's trading "rules," which I just re-read, really don't discuss how new traders, or any traders for that matter, should follow a paved path when cutting their first few deals. Comparing that absence of rules to eBay's terms is a difficult analogy in my opinion.

 

The "club" mentality may exist, but I didn't see it. Like Mark says, if you have the beer, people will trade with you, just learn the rules first. I sat around lurking for a month, not a single trade post, just watching and reading the trading guides. When I jumped in, I went fast, 2nd involved CR and some vintage DLs, 4th involved 100% Cuir. Sure, I may have gotten more hits if I was an established trader, but the trades got done anyway, because the deal was right and I learned the rules.

 

It was short term if you call a year and a half that, because the whole community went to shit. I find myself coming on here less and less each day. I basically only trade with my trading partners now but every once in a while I'll hook a new guy up if he seems like a good guy or sometimes I'll also direct them to one of my trading partners that could help them because completely reasonable trade offers don't get done anymore these days.

I still like helping out new people that seem nice and want to learn a little but there just aren't all that many of them anymore since every newbie that hops in here swears they know what they're doing and tell me why their offer is fair and use eBay to back up their statement. Its their right to do that but that's also when I cut communications and move on.

I started encountering way too many people out to maximize their returns and found myself cutting communication waay more often than not so that's when I decided to pretty much start ignoring the trading forum and stick with the good guys I've traded with before. If they don't live near the release I'm looking for then I move on and hope someone in my tasting group brings it in eventually.

 

I am not saying I am done trading but I am certainly not seeking out much at this point. The last several trades I have done were set up to hook up a friend or an old trading partner with something or other they were looking for, I cannot recall the last trade I initiated. I have had my share of beers from across the country, I still enjoy trying something new but I am just as happy drinking a Two Hearted most days.

I'll work a trade here and there I am sure but for the foreseeable future my trades will probably occur less frequently.

 

This is my problem. I have too much sitting around that I need to drink sooner, rather than later. Time to slow it down.

 

The only rule I know of for new traders is to ship first. I've never seen any other rules. Some of us experienced traders suggest new traders start small. That is because many newbies are making stupid trade offers then try to justify them with nonsense.

I have around 140 trades total and I am cutting back on trading. I will still be trading, but I will be trading less and trying to make my trades as no extras. Saves on shipping and costs of extras. I love great beer, but don't really drink very often. I prefer to drink whatever epic beers I might trade for rather than locals I may or may not like.

 

As long as Hill Farmstead doesn't distribute to Indiana and I also can't get Heady Topper or Abrasive , I'll be a trader.

 

Only Shogo could boot a Rare for Shogo

 

I did about 120+ trades across 2 years before I finally cut back and pretty much cut myself off. For me, it had to do with a number of things...

1) Like the OP said, shipping costs were just getting too excessive. And I started to think about shipping costs in terms of beer as in, "instead of shipping 2 boxes, I could probably buy 3 6ers or bombers. That put a whole new perspective on things.

2) I tried almost everything that I set out to try. Whether it was through generous trading partners or tasting group members, I was able to sample a ton of things that I never would've been able to get by myself.

3) There are just too many sub-par new releases coming out that not only is it impossible to try them all, its also not worth it 90% of the time.

I'd definitely hook up regular trading partners that I've made on here without hesitation but as far as dealing with new traders, the benefits just don't outweigh the costs anymore.

 

I have already cut way back. I now trade mostly for my tasting group. But nowadays so much great beer is available, including things it used to be necessary to trade for, that trading isn't the only option to taste the best of the best. It has to be really special for me to want to trade for it, or a request from a past partner.

I have done about 70 trades so far, I am guessing I will only need to trade four times, or less, a year for the group.

And I admit that the thread I started about ebaying attitudes, and the result that nearly half of present traders thought nothing wrong with it, added to my wanting to cut way back. Well, I think there is plenty wrong with ebaying beer, and I don't want to run the risk of trading with people who are what I consider to be the founding nemeses of the beer trading community. I've watched profit junkies ruin a few scenes in my time. I stayed away from the greedheads then, will do the same now.

 

Eh, I'm >115 trades in and I'm still a ****. I'll trade to my usual contacts with regularity, and I'll often entertain noobs just to get some strange.

 

I actually added up my UPS bill for 12 months and it came out to $1500. I REALLY try to stop trading...but there is ALWAYS something that catches my eye. There always seems to be that last beer I really want to get...right now it is Wild One, I can't catch that one. It ususally works that I get disgusted and quit, for a while...but then I always come back. Oh well......

 

When statements like "what are you willing to offer" became part of the regular trading convo around here, I decided it was time to cut way back ... That statement, IMO, is no better than what people do on eBay. Gone are the days of swapping beers with other beer lovers just for the sake of swapping beers and in are the days of bigger, better, rarer. If you aren't willing to spread your cheeks and lift your sack in order to get a rarer beer, you ain't gettin' it. Good for you Shogo.

 

Warning: side tangent. If other long-term traders have noticed similar patterns, I'd be happy to hear about it.

I've been trading off and on for almost 5 years now. In 60-70 trades (80% on BA, 15% on /r/beertrade, 5% on RB), I've only had two truly 'bad trader' experiences. One was in a BIF, the other was jojomdma. Overall, my trading experiences have been great, ISO/FT forum issues notwithstanding. I readily make trades with traders both new to me, and new to trading in general. However, in the past 6 months of trading, I've received 4-5 boxes with zero extras. To make matters worse, a few of those boxes were poorly packed in re-used, thin-walled cardboard boxes. Now, I know that extras are always, well, extra. Hell, I admit that a few times I have not had the opportunity/funds/box-space to ship out an extra or two. I've even sent a bonus box after being demolished by an extra-generous trader or two. But lately, the trend I've observed (although purely anecdotal) is disheartening, especially since in the 4+ years leading up to this, I probably received only 2-3 boxes without extras.

Has anyone else noticed a slow extinction of extras? Should I just stick to regular trading partners? Should I specify up front if I'm sending extras (I really hate to do this since, for me, it ruins the surprise). Apologies if this sounds like a whining rant, but it's gotten quite frustrating as of late...

 

I just ran through my Fedex records and I spent $1071 in the past 6 months. So that is over $2000 per year. I'm glad I am cutting back.

 

Say it aint so Phil!!! Well thanks for being an outstanding trading partner. Let me know if you make it back for GABF this year I will buy you a beer.