Idea for Sierra Nevada

Since we're fantasizing about tinkering with their lineup, I'll throw in mine. I don't ordinarily subscribe to the idea that a brewery should "do it all," but I'm making an exception here. In the past, I felt that it would be great if Sierra Nevada put out a Belgian style in the 12oz format - and I don't mean 12.7oz corked bottles. I thought their lineup would be better for it. I see that this will soon be the case since they are bringing out 12oz Ovila White this year. I'll give that one a shot for sure. What I'd really love to see though, would be a seasonal six pack Belgian "single" done outside of the Ovila series but instead as a collaboration with a different Belgian brewer every year (just like the Oktoberfest concept). I guess they'd feel like they were cheating on the Californian monks though.

 

Always been a big fan of Summerfest but if they switched it out for their Kolsch I would not be opposed. That thing was delicious!

 

SN lineup is good but I won't pay $40 a case here too much competition. I might give Torpedo a nod once or twice a year.

 

How many months old is too old for Kellerweis? Thanks to this thread I bought a six pack last night forgetting how good it was, and since it's already summer in NC it felt right. Only bottled in December but asking for future reference.

 

I don't have stats to back this up, but I'd bet the world that breweries such as SN are being hurt by the "my beer has to be less than two weeks old" crowd out there. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, SN's hoppy beers (and the non-hoppy offerings as well) hold their flavor/aroma better than any other brewery I've found. I have no qualms at all drinking a Torpedo with 3 months age on it. I'll probably buy another sixer of Celebration if I see it just to see what I think, knowing it's 100+ days old.

If people want to turn their nose up at a 50 day old SN, that's their own ignorance. I just hate that it may hurt their business because of some misguided idea that an IPA should only be consumed if its less than 10 days old.

 

I'm surprised so many people are lumping Summerfest and Nooner together as a redundant package. One's a Czech Pils and the other's a German. I'm guessing which one people prefer has more to do with which style they're partial to generally rather than one being a notably better example of its style than the other. Certainly not apples and oranges but at least perhaps red apples and green apples

I wonder if the U.S. has an overall preference for one vs. the other? It feels like there's somewhat more German versions on the shelf but that may just be my bias since that's the style I prefer and therefore remember. Anyone know?

And add me as another vote for the Kolsch and Vienna Lager getting at least stand alone seasonal slots.

 

Ha, this is a great line. And it furthers begs the question, how many "apples" should a US brewery have in their line-up then?

If apples were IPAs in this analogy, I'd say the more the merrier (not personal preference, based on what sells). But apples are Pilsners...

I would say it's like German Pils. A German Pils tends to be perceived as more crisp and hoppier, and we all know what US beer geeks prefer...

But this is a tough conversation to have. Hop profiles for both German and Czech Pils can vary so much within their respective countries, add to that the fact that there really is no style such as "Czech Pils".

To make things even MORE complicated, how many US breweries are actually brewing what one would consider a "traditional" Pils (if we could even pin down what that definition is)? Many of them put their own spin on them, oftentimes hopping the hell out of them and simply slapping a label on it at random, Czech or German.

But if I had to boil it down, I'd take your average imported German Pils (Jever, Weihenstephan, Radeberger, Bitburger...etc.) on the whole I'd say they feel crisper, sharper, and hoppier than your stock standard Czech Pils that hits the shelves here in the US...Pilsner Urquell.

Given that, I'd say US beer geeks would prefer a German Pils. Now I want a Pilsner, any kind will do.

 

Poor SierraNevadaBill... so many opinions and impossible to address them all. Nearly everyone is talking about beers that SN currently has or recently had in their line-ups, so if you really want SN to do something you should make a point to buy the product when it's available. SN can't be sure that opinionated people on this forum actually buy their products on a regular basis, which is why they track their sales closely and adjust as needed. So, if you want SN to do something, money talks a lot louder than posting on Beer Advocate.


EDIT: I want that Kolsch back in some form though!

 

That makes sense, and falls pretty much in line with how I'd try and describe the difference. And I didn't realize that Czech Pils wasn't well defined in the way German was.

For my palate there appears to be some sort of through-line delineating them because I've honestly never had anything labeled a Czech pilsner that I particularly liked. And I almost actively dislike Pilsner Urquell (the horror!). I know I'm not being seduced by the labels either since it was only after the fact that I realized what, at least ostensibly, made Lagunitas, Summerfest, PU, Narraganset Bohemian, and Noble Pils different from Prima, Nooner, Raddeburger, Pivo, and the Crisp.

I thought I had it narrowed down to a distaste for Saaz hops but a recent thread here seemed to indicate that that probably wasn't a reliable difference. I really need to gather 5 or 6 of each together some night and do some careful, side by side, research to try and figure out what my deal is. Only in the name of science, of course.

 

Is this just a semantics thing as regards the specific words of “Czech Pils”?

There is most certainly a beer style for the pale lagers like they brew in the Czech Republic.

The Brewers Association style guidelines label this beer as “Bohemian-Style Pilsener”.

The European Beer Star Awards style guidelines: “3) Bohemian-Style Pilsner”

Cheers!

 

That is not the case. The style of Czech Pils (or Bohemian Pilsner or Czech Pale Lager) is as well defined as the German Plsner style.

I would suggest that a more notable difference between a Bohemian Pilsner and a German Pilsners is the varying malt backbone.

Is there something(s) specific that you do not like about Pilsner Urquell? Are you able to buy Pilsner Urquell in good condition (e.g., not too old)?

Cheers!

 

Chris, I am pretty sure that was posted tongue in cheek.

Now that you have my attention, the labeling that Miller uses on their Miller Lite beers is simply atrocious. That beer is an American Adjunct Lager and even more so it is a Super American Adjunct Lager since it utilizes 'extra' adjunct to lighten that beer.

Non-cheers to this marketing BS!

 

This was discussed in a recent thread, here's @Lurchus' take on it from that thread, titled, "What's a good Czech Pils" if I recall correctly...

I couldn't quote this from two years ago for some reason, so who's @ChrisLohring's take on it...

"There is no such thing as Bohemian Pilsner, it is an American creation. Also, the Czech's will never call a pale lager a Pilsner unless it comes from Plzen. It is simply a pale lager, and it is not a monolithic style, it is really quite varied - from sweet and malty to dry and hoppy. To pigeonhole it into a specific flavor profile is simply wrong. I wonder how many of those who define Czech pale lager have ever been to the Czech Republic, or outside of Prague. And then there is the whole strength categorization - 8, 10, 12, 14 Plato and more. What pale lager strength are we talking about?

The Czech Republic has no less than 16 distinct styles, and the US can't understand one, never mind recognize more than one."

For example, Notch's flagship, their Pils, is a Světlé Výčepní 10º (Nefiltrované). If you drink this side by side there's notable differences between this beer and say, Pilsner Urquell.

There's a BJCP definition, and one could argue in the US, and in regard to @meefmoff's specific question, that it is an argument in semantics. But I think you could also argue that it's more complicated than that.

 

LOL!

Well, if "Fine Pilsner" = American Adjunct Lager then I suppose Miller if not utilizing marketing BS.

Cheers!

 

Thx for clarifying the existence of the Czech style guideline (ETA: sounds like this is a complex issue. Thanks then to both of you for discussing it).

I semi-recently got to try some PU out of a can (so at the very least not lightstruck) that I believe was reasonably fresh and felt the same as I always had before. Whatever it is that I don't like about Czechs, the PU seemed to have a lot of it.

A descriptor that comes up (seemingly without much negative connotation) in some of the reviews of examples of the style is "sulfur" so perhaps I'm overly sensitive to that compound. In retrospect I could see that term describing the unpleasant flavor I associate with them.

I really do need to suck it up and do some side by sides because I'm mostly trying to retrofit my thoughts onto previous experiences. I do generally enjoy pretty much all other non-AAL light lager styles, so I'd really like to know what my problem is. My thanks for trying to help me narrow things down

 

And that is exactly what you are doing and getting @meefmoff confused in the process. If you have a personal preference for differing wording (e.g., Czech Pale Lager) simply express that thought.

Statements like “the fact that there really is no style such as "Czech Pils" it totally misleading.

Whether you call the beer style "Czech Pils" or "Bohemian Pilsner" or "Czech Pale Lager" does not negate the fact that there is a well defined beer style for this beer.

Cheers!

 

At the risk of leading the witness: did you pick up a buttery flavor in Pilsner Urquell?

Cheers!

 

None of those beers sit on the shelves in NJ.