Imperial Session Black IPAs

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by AlCaponeJunior, Jun 28, 2013.

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  1. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Hahahaha, I just put up that title to get people riled up. :rolling_eyes:

    What I really wanted to know is what are your favs when it comes to Cascadian dark ales? Commercials and recipes, feel free to contribute. I've made one, back in the extract days, and it was pretty good but by no means fantastic. I'm thinking of making one again, all grain this time. Oh, and of reasonable ABV, not too low, not too high, let's say 6.4%-ish, say 12-13 lbs of grain on my five gallon system. That's about as "imperial session" as you can get. :stuck_out_tongue:

    I'd likely hop it with magnum for any serious bittering needs, and cascade for anything that sounds iffy hops wise, leaving me unsure where to proceed on the hops. However, I do have some citra... it's a thought, but I haven't brewed such a beast (citra with dark malts?) so don't know if it would be nasty or delicious. I have no nelson, no amarillo, and no simcoe, so while those recipes might be noted for later use, I have no intention of ordering any more hops anytime soon.

    I have a bunch of different hops in the freezer, but I'm not sure exactly what I have without looking, truth be told. It's been almost five weeks since I brewed*, and I'm a dyin' to brew again! I might get a chance this weekend, might. I'm about out of homebrew tho, so desperation is setting in! I also have one that is plenty ready to bottle (four weeks primary, I'd say it's ready). I already have this weekend's recipe ready to go, I just need the time to do it!!!!!

    What about a fair chunk of bravo along with some cascade, would those play well with the dark malts? I can't see cascade ever NOT playing well with anything, in my book.

    Any favorite grain bills, hop combos, IBU levels, love/hate stories, or tales of woe?

    I like a good chunk of roasty and a touch of burnt flavors in a CDA, but I don't want an import or imperial stout that's heavily hopped (that's a different recipe**). Almost like a black lager, but thicker and more full bodied, kinda like sublimely self righteous (I rather like that one, but it's a touch heavier and higher ABV than I want to brew myself).

    I also want a medium bodied beer with fair carbonation, not a fizz bomb, but not borderline flat either. As a general rule, I really hate it when a beer is under-carbonated (I'd rather have too much than too little). Thus, I will likely bottle with my usual amounts of sugar regardless of any advice on that front. :sunglasses:

    *BTW, did I mention NOT to take calculus II in the summer? :grimacing:

    **:rolling_eyes:
     
  2. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    Citra with dark malts is amazingly good.

    There's a local brewery, Red Brick, that had a "Black Eye Rye" Black IPA.. Came in, higher in ABV than you are wanting, and I think probably a bit more roasty flavor came through, almost roasted barley, or even a good fist full of black patent in there.. Not sure. It had a slight coffee, burnt brown sugar note, but then the spice from the rye and the piney citrus came through in the finish with a ultra dry grating feeling on your tounge from the roasted malts.

    But they used Citra, Cascade and Chinook. Want to say it was north of 7.5%, but probably 8%, and 80 or so IBU's.

    I thought it was good. I could do with less roast, but loved it being almost too much, if I were to brew something like it. The hop combo was fantastic though.
     
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  3. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I don't think I have chinook, but I know I have citra and plenty of cascade. Maybe a citra/cascade/bravo combo, with bravo as the bulk of the IBUs, and a good combo of late additions would work. Really I'm not afraid to brew anything, even crazy ideas (that seem likely to not be completely stupid, lol), as I will almost certainly drink every one of even a mediocre beer in short order either way, so experimenting is fine by me. Heck, without the "go for it" attitude, I would never have taken a blind chance on munich and bravo in a hoppy smash, and that one turned out great!

    If I can get to brewing this weekend I might just brew the wheat beer I already have ready to go, plus that crazy citra smash we talked about a few weeks ago. Then I can get the grains, yeast, and hops ready for a CDA the next brew session.

    I might also throw together that 2.45 gallon extract/mini-mash T-58 saison thingie I've been meaning to brew. I can do calculus at the kitchen table and make that without having to leave the house. :confused:
     
  4. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,564) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    So what I'm saying is. Brew a black IPA with chinook, citra and cascade. Use some roasted barley or carafa III or something.. Do about 65-70 IBU and 6.5%, and LMK how it taste, then pass me the recipe.
     
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  5. MrOH

    MrOH Grand Pooh-Bah (3,995) Jul 5, 2010 Virginia
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I've done a few black IPAs to this point. I really enjoy the route of making it more of a Black Imperial Amber Ale rather than Black IPA; lots of malt character (both from munich and a blend of caramel malts), get the srm where you need it with midnight wheat or carafa special II or III, maybe a touch of chocolate malt, and lots of late hops.

    So far as hopping goes, the hop bursting method doesn't work so well. You need a sturdy bittering charge. Try too use something on the smoother side, the dehusked roasted malts will still add a bit of astringency. I'd also think that this is a style that needs a couple of varieties late to round it out. Maybe a hefty dose of cascade, something somewhat englishy (EKG, fuggles, Willamette, etc.), and then just a touch of citra at flameout and in dry hop. Something like:

    20min 1oz Willamette
    10 2oz cascade 1oz Willamette
    FO 3oz Cascade 1.5oz Willamette .5oz Citra
    DH 3oz Cascade 1oz Citra

    Plug that into your software and then use Magnum @60 to get to the IBUs you're looking for.
     
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  6. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    I am a big fan of piney, dank in your face bitter CDAs. Apollo, Chinook, CTZ and Simcoe.
     
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  7. Smokebox_79

    Smokebox_79 Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Had one just finish carbing. 5% and a little too roasty. Gonna try Midnight Wheat or maybe Sinimar next time or a cold steep of Carafa III. Black as fucking night. I swear when I poured it the room got a little darker! Dry hopped with Centennial. The real citrusy hops really seem to go well with the darker malts
     
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  8. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    I like mine to have as little roast character as possible, so take what you will. I also prefer them to be high on the woods and dank side with fruit to round out as opposed to citrusy. Gordon Strong is fairly vocal that citrus hops and dark malts do not belong together, I don't totally agree, but it depends on how much and which types of dark malts. Carafa III or Midnight Wheat both work well. Chinook, Simcoe, and CTZ play well. My first CDA was all Cascade plus some Simcoe thrown in for DH. It was pretty good, but not as good as the one I did in Spring: Calypso, Chinook, Mosaic, hint of Simcoe. Blueberries and Pine Cones!
     
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  9. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Well, let's pull something out of thin air and see whether anyone gasps with horror...

    Q: is midnight wheat the same as roasted wheat? What about chocolate wheat? Beersmith doesn't have midnight wheat listed.

    9 lbs 2-row
    3 lbs munich
    8 oz midnight wheat
    2 oz carafa II
    1 oz roasted barley

    1 oz bravo at 60
    1 oz cascade at 10,5,0
    0.5 oz citra at 5
    1 oz citra at 0

    DH 2 oz cascade, 0.5 oz citra, 0.5 oz bravo

    1.062 OG
    69.1 IBU
    25 srm
    6.4%

    obviously subject to change
     
  10. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah


    Your SRM is well beyond 25 for sure. I steeped 7oz Midnight Wheat for my CDA and it was BLACK. 1/2# Midnight Wheat would go BLACK as a moonless night w/o the Carafa. I am assuming the roast is for a touch of dryness. Midnight Wheat is not the same as chocolate or roasted wheat, you might need to add it to your BeerSmith ingredients list.
     
  11. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Grand Pooh-Bah (3,452) May 21, 2010 Texas
    Society Pooh-Bah



    Oh, sorry, what is listed is actually roasted wheat, SRM 425, not midnight wheat. What's the SRM on midnight wheat?
     
  12. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

  13. Smokebox_79

    Smokebox_79 Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Dont be fooled, the Midnight Wheat, isn't technically a "Wheat" persay. Just really dark with no flavor contribution!
     
  14. Smokebox_79

    Smokebox_79 Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2013 Pennsylvania

    Try 2oz Centennial dry hop. The citrus and slight roastiness is a great combo!
     
  15. sarcastro

    sarcastro Savant (1,133) Sep 20, 2006 Michigan

    Imperial Black Saison IPA which is how I read it the first time doesnt sound that bad. Imperial Hoppy Black Saison.
     
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  16. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    The first ever CDA I had was a group brew for an annual brewfest, Black Rye Black IPA. O thought it was good, Matt Van Wyk (the brewer thought it was not and really didn't want to brew it).
     
  17. Bonis

    Bonis Initiate (0) Jul 28, 2010 Ohio

    Mine usually ends up being more like an Imperial Black (or a hoppy imperial porter).

    For hops, we primarily use Warrior, Amarillo, Centennial and Sorachi Ace (might be missing one or two, chinook/cascade?) and have won a couple of awards with it. I've also done a single hop Simcoe black ale and it ended up pretty nice.

    As for grains, we usually push the borderline of a stout. Never black patent, but definitely coffee malt and a little roasted barley. The carafas are always a good choice. Believe me when I say Pale Chocolate is great malt to use in a "Black IPA"... Chocolate covered oranges is nice in a beer.
     
  18. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Mitch Steele called out Black IPA in his presentation, as he can't abide by calling those CDA's.
     
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