Infection/Quality Problems: what we should know

I would like to see some data/info on this as well - not finding anything about what kind of microbes could hitch a ride on a hop. Kind of a tough search term to put together though...

But let's set this aside as something to ponder - it's drifting away from the original intent.

 

The vast majority of professional brewers would never release a beer they knew was infected. As mentioned earlier in this thread an infection often doesn't develop to a noticeable level until several weeks or months after the beer has left the brewery.

 

I'm not sure many harvest ales actually are "dry hopped" with the fresh hops (would think risk of too much vegetable flavors?). I would think probably just late additions or hop backed, but not sure.

From John Palmer's How to Brew:
"When you are dry hopping there is no reason to worry about adding unboiled hops to the fermenter. Infection from the hops just doesn't happen."

 

A ton of great information in this thread already, but I think it also helps to illustrate just how obfuscated the topic of beer infection is in the first place. Sometimes, the question of whether or not a beer is infected comes down to intent with regards to the inclusion of the common bugs--as has been mentioned already, wild ales intentionally use bacteria and yeast that would absolutely be considered an infection in other styles. And yet, a beer being a wild ale doesn't make it immune from infection (although it does make it easier for a brewer to pretend as if the flavors are intentional).

It's also difficult because your experience with an infected beer can depend on so many factors that impact how the offending bugs develop in the bottle. How long after bottling did you have it? At what temperature was it stored in between bottling and opening? Even things like alcohol level can impact the speed of bug growth since super-high alcohol content tends to kill bugs and make it harder for them to propagate.

To that end, I wanted to share some of my own anecdotal experiences...

The same beer can either scream infection in a way that makes it impossible to miss or simply hint at the possibility. Case in point: I had the educational opportunity to enjoy 2013 White Chocolate at two different points in time. First, in February 2014, about 8 months after bottling, then again in June 2015, almost two full years after bottling. The first time, the beer tasted vastly like it's namesake--a wonderful, rich vanilla and caramel aroma with no signs of tartness or muted flavors and a taste that had those same elements, but with a slight tartness that with the other flavors came off a little bit like pineapple. It was delicious. The second time, it was undrinkable, even for someone who enjoys sours. The hint of tartness had been replaced by overpowering acidity--an almost bile-like flavor and no remnant of the intended flavor profiles. You would think that eight months is plenty of time for an infection to set in, but I can only surmise that the 15% abv helped to slow the ability of the bugs to do their work.

Another experience I had with a beer that I don't believe was infected is also from The Bruery: Mash & Grind. As a bourbon barrel aged English barleywine with coffee, I came in expecting a blend of coffee and the sweeter profiles you get in a BBA barleywine--caramel, molasses, graham cracker, etc. And yet, when I tried M&G, there was a really overwhelmingly fruity characteristic to it. Not really sour, but lightly tart and fruity. At the time, I wondered if I had an infected beer, but in doing some research, that doesn't seem likely--I didn't find any discussions about infected M&G (in spite of all the "Bruery beer X is infected" discussions and only one review mentioned anything about infection. In the long run, I decided that the coffee and barleywine both had some fruity flavor profiles (not unheard of for either to have) that interacted in a certain way with my palate on that day. But it certainly goes to show that infection is a hard thing to nail down, even with a lot of great information.

In terms of what breweries have done for infected beers I've experienced:

When I got a bottle of sour Heirloom Pumpkin Barleywine from Almanac, I reached out through their website (per the recommendation of an employee who commented on the thread about the infection here on BA) and didn't get a response. I mentioned something about not getting a response on that same thread and was told to try again, but never got around to it. It may seem stupid, but the hassle of having to go back to the website and re-submit my information and wonder when/if I was going to get a follow-up was more than I wanted to deal with, so I just ate (drank?) the cost.

I bought a bottle of Silva Stout at a discount from a local store knowing it was likely to be overwhelmed with diacetyl. I'd read about a lot of people reaching out to GF and getting swag/compensation bottles, but when I opened mine to find the infection I just wasn't motivated to reach out, so I didn't.

 

Side note: around the time The Bruery released their statement about Floyd d'Rue, I seem to recall them saying something to the effect of how additives/adjuncts can carry an increased risk of infection if you add them after the boil. However, the trick is that they felt that adding said adjuncts after the boil imparted a more robust flavor to the finished beer.

Not sure if that's true, so I'd love to hear input from anyone with more knowledge/experience than me.

 

I completely agree that adding dry hops to the fermenter would pose virtually no risk (I'll never say no risk).

And I can see where the risk might be low adding "fresh" hops straight from the field to wort on the hot side (which is what I gather is done for a beer like Deschutes Chasin' Freshies, Founder's Harvest, or Sierra Nevada's Fresh Hop).

So is anybody "dry hopping" (on the cold side) with fresh hops would be the question...I'm thinking SixPoint Sensi Harvest is made that way...if I remember the video clip correctly showing bags of hops being hung in the fermenter.

We monitor micro load on our incoming harvest - soil, water, and airborne organisms do come in with fruit and sometimes at high levels, even though cranberries have their own antimicrobial protection mechanism. I was wondering whether the same is true for hops and maybe I could find some data. Logically, it must at least be probable - hops grow outside in the air, dirt, and water. SO I was wondering if there could be enough "load" to affect a beer where fresh, green hops (at high rates) were tossed into the cold side of the process. It might be a low level contamination, but given time could infection symptoms arise? I don't know - just wonderin' aloud.

But...as I said, it is a side topic to the main point of the thread. Let us (me) derail no further

 

from my understanding of the subject, infected beers usually take some time before people will realize its infected, or the infection develops. Fresh hopped beers, i assume, are usually drank before the the infection has a chance to be recognizable (my sixpoint sensi made it only a week in my fridge). So i really dont see it possible that hops could ever infect a beer.

 

That is definitely the case. A good simple example would be coffee beans: try cold brewed/pressed vs hot brewed coffee. Boiling adjuncts will cause some flavors and aromatics to be boiled off and lost, and even more will be scrubbed and lost via co2 generated by the fermentation process. Some fruits, when boiled, produce pectin haze and off flavors when boiled or heated above a certain temp, so post fermentation is really the only, and best option for them to be added.

 

Very nice post Cave Dave, and I agree completely that this is a much needed conversation topic and should be an area of concern for those of us who are seeing way too many "infection" posts out there right now.

I think there is a lot of confusion on what an infection really is, also how it should be handled. I think it's great you provided a start to how to address these issues.

As a seasoned homebrewer, I have some pretty good training on what infections are, and the different types of them. I honestly can't remember the last time I've had a truly infected commercially brewed beer, and I'd be surprised to see one given the quality control breweries have these days. Not that I doubt they are out there, but I'm skeptical that as many infections have been happening on brands like bourbon county and so forth.

 

The infection threat is very real nowadays with adjuncts (looking at you coffee beans and cacao nibs) and barrel aging being all the rage. These things are much harder to control from a quality control perspective. Just look at barrel programs that are blending many barrels to produce an end product. Only takes a little bad stuff in a barrel or two to make a batch go bad. And it might take months for it to reveal its ugly head!

That being said, I've had 5 brews in the last few weeks that were absolutely, 100% infected, and they were all barrel aged beers. And the infections were acknowledged by the breweries.

 

Well, you could ask @Sixpoint

Shane, I understand this could be a tricky discussion for a brewer to comment in, so no hard feelings if you don't respond, but if you had information on Sensi Harvest, specifically, and any evaluation of the risk of infection from "cold" dry-hopping or additional QA steps needed, there are some here who would appreciate it. Cheers!

 

I had a Triple C The Dude Imbibes that was infected. E-mailed the brewery, they apologized and sent me a BA Chocolate Covered Pretzel as a consolation

Not an infection issue, but I also had a Double Barley Thrilla in Vanilla that was massively overcarbonated. I emailed the brewery, they apologized and sent me a replacement bottle, a bottle of their winter warmer and a DB can-shaped pint glass.

 

Fair enough, and I believe you 100%. Any specific offenders?

I realize the threat of barrel aging and causing infections, and you're right, we'll probably see more of this given the trend towards these types of beers.

I know that many great breweries also take great pride in their quality, and go through great measures to control as much beer as possible going to consumers. Avery, for example, (who has an extensive barrel program) claims that they throw out upwards of 7% of their entire batches, which is incredible from a dollar perspective. They have an amazing lab with many qualified scientists, quality control panels and training, etc. It obviously is a huge focal point for any breweries participating in barrel aging, as infected bottles can easily lead to bad press, complaints, and $$$ being spent to fix the issues.

 

The real question; if you drink an infected beer will you get sick?

 

The good news is no. No pathogens can grow in beer.

Cheers!

 

Luckily the only infections I have had commercially were bottle gushers, an obvious red flag. I had a bomber erupt like a volcano once leaving about 4oz.

As a homebrewer that has dabbled with Brettanomyces and some wild yeasts I would like to add one thing regarding spotting an unopened clean beer that might be infected. Look for a white film called a pellicle covering the top of the beer. I would take a picture and send it to the brewer without bothering to open it, that would be a clear indicator that something is wrong. All my brett/wild beers developed this film in the bottle over time. It's possible when you bought the bottle it was clean but it can take months to develop in some cases.

 

How easy is it to discern a pellicle in a dark brown bottle?

Needless to say but a pellicle can not be seen in a canned beer.

Cheers!

 

Not too hard to notice in my experience. A few years ago I bottled a stout in Fischer bottles. They're light brown glass with swing tops (pic linked below). I left a few in the closet for about two months, and instantly noticed a pellicle when I went to move it to the fridge.

... That said it still tasted good .

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/197/710/

 

It does increase the risk of infection for sure, which can be mitigated two ways:

1) you could pasteurize the beer, which sort of defeats the purpose though. Who wants to create a great wet hop beer only to zap the beer with heat prior to distribution?

2) you can brew a high-gravity beer and roll the dice....the higher ABV generally serves as a good safeguard against infection, along with the higher hop levels.


Nothing is guaranteed, but #2 will work IF if you consume the beer fresh and keep it cold prior to consumption.